Is There A Universal Now?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Cyperium, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Looking through some elderly notes I came across this

    https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/newsflash-time-may-not-exist

    I am sure I have posted it elsewhere in SciForum but another copy here seems to be OK

    Reading the text indicates a few physicist who agree with me FUNDIMENTIAL TIME (UPPER CASE (to indicate fundimential not yelling) ) does not exist

    * JOKE PEOPLE JOKE - LIGHTEN UP *

    What is commonly referred to as time (lower case) is definitely NOT time

    Best description would be a agreed upon number of frequencies of a crystal equals a second

    What is a second (s or sec)? The second (s or sec) is the International System of Units (SI) unit of time measurement. One second is the time that elapses during 9,192,631,770 (or 9.192631770 x 109 in decimal form) cycles of the radiation produced by the transition between two levels of the cesium-133 atom

    https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/second-s-or-sec?amp=1

    Having talked about and decided (arbitrarily) the length of the second longer periods became multiples of seconds and shorter periods a fraction of a second

    This follows that lower case time is a manufactured concept and certainly not UPPER CASE FUNDIMENTIAL TIME

    I have asked a few times for a list of the properties of TIME
    None have been presented
    A photo of TIME none presented

    Anyone (except you know who you are) care to provide evidence of the existence TIME?

    Evidence - available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid

    Existence - having objective reality

    Both above from Google

    The floor is conceded

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I listed some for you earlier. You probably forgot. Or something.
    No problem. Again, I already did it.

    Please raise your hand. Do you notice that it is both raised and not raised? No? That must be because it was lowered at one time and raised at a different time. Ergo, time exists.

    Did something happen when you raised your hand? That must be because there's this thing called time that allows things to happen. Without time, nothing could change.

    How old are you? Do you remember when you were 15 years old? If you do, that must mean that your brain is in a different state now than when you were 15. Have you noticed any changes in yourself since you were 15, or 2 years old? If so, that must be because you aren't 2 years old and your current age simultaneously. Ergo, time exists.

    Time is what prevents everything from happening at once. It is the thing that allows anything to happen at all.

    This really isn't a hard concept to grasp. Maybe one day you'll get there.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmmm Anybody out there know a remedial school for those who cannot read or perhaps read but don't understand what they have read?

    And the above is a fake post because the real version of said fake person stated I was a lost cause and would no longer interact with me

    So said real person would not do that post above

    Please fake person go away

    Anything you post will be totally irrelevant and ignored

    Anyone (except fake person) care to provide evidence of the existence TIME?

    Evidence - available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid

    Existence - having objective reality

    Both above from Google

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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Is there something wrong with you? Your delusions about time and these strange posts seems a bit concerning. Are you perhaps beginning to have dementia issues? Good luck.
     
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
    C C likes this.
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    So only a personal comment

    No contribution to Is There A Universal Now?

    OK

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  10. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, just commenting on your post.
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    OK

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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Michael:

    It's telling that you have no response to the content of my post. Instead, there's just this little temper tantrum from you.

    I'm almost sure that I told you previously that I might pop in now and then to comment on errors you make about time, or something like that. If I didn't, please take this as a statement of intent, just so we're clear.
    I just did that. Actually, the very fact that you don't get to read all my posts at once (including the ones I'm yet to write) is evidence for the existence of time.

    Look, you've had your fun trolling this time doesn't exist nonsense. Maybe now might be a good time to give it a rest. Or do you want to double down again?

    One more thing: you might like to reconsider this demand of yours for "properties" for time. I think that maybe the problem you're running into is that you have trouble distinguishing concepts from physical objects. Time is not an object, obviously. It has no colour, or smell, or taste. It has no mass. It has no electrical charge. Only objects have those kinds of things.

    Lots of other things are similar. Consider love, friendship, hunger, speed, momentum, power, the economy, society, narrative, etc. etc. These things are sometimes referred to as "abstract nouns". None of them have colour, smell, taste, mass or electrical charge, or any other object-like properties.

    If you are going to try to use the fact that time has no object-like properties to prove that time doesn't exist, then I think you need to be consistent. Are you also going to deny that love, friendship, hunger, speed, momentum, power, the economy, society and narrative exist (just for starters)?

    Also, now I'm wondering whether you're going to address any of this content, or if you're planning to hide behind your petulant promise to ignore everything I write. I'm guessing you're going to get even more petty about this. Please prove me wrong.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    As a subject running along side or blended in with I am posting this article here

    Time might not exist

    https://theconversation.com/amp/tim...icists-and-philosophers-but-thats-okay-181268

    Time might not exist, according to physicists and philosophers – but that's okay

    Some extracts

    One of the remarkable aspects of loop quantum gravity is that it appears to eliminate time entirely.

    So unless we can come up with a good account of how time emerges, it is not clear we can simply assume time exists.

    At least, that’s what Kristie Miller, Jonathan Tallant and I argue in our new book.

    AND

    https://scitechdaily.com/does-time-exist-how-do-we-know/

    Does Time Exist? How Do We Know?

    Extracts

    Our entire lives are regulated by clocks, but what they measure is less certain. How can we be sure that time actually exists? It’s time to talk to an expert, Kazuya Koyama

    Koyama is a Professor of Cosmology in the Institute of Cosmology and Gravitation at the University of Portsmouth.

    AND

    https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/physics/does-time-exist/amp/

    Extracts


    But the truth is that humans have been pondering this question for at least 2,500 years, and so far no one has come up with an answer satisfactory to everyone.

    Comment - so not exactly a new idea

    ...........once scientists have worked out their equations, time is nowhere to be found. And if it’s not part of the fundamental fabric of the universe, how do we know it’s not something we’ve invented to explain what we don’t understand?

    .......the philosopher John McTaggart Ellis stirred up a debate that has lasted for more than a century, when he argued for the unreality of time

    What’s more, in the search for a theory that unifies the two hitherto separate theories of the large and the small, it is often the case that time is not present.

    I think I will leave posting and have a needed coffee

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  14. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    The proof that time does in fact exist is the amount of needless time that has been wasted debating the pointless question "Does time exist?"

    Next:"Does heat exist?"
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    May I humbly suggest you urgently contact any / all of the physicists and others listed in the above articles with your proof time does exist as per your statement you posted

    The proof that time does in fact exist is the amount of needless time that has been wasted debating the pointless question "Does time exist?"

    as proof time does exist (despite their writings in the articles)

    You will no doubt receive high praise for saving those physicists and others from trying to follow a lost cause (ie TIME does not exist)

    Yah bring it on

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  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Well I will agree that time does in fact come to a complete standstill down rabbit holes
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Sad that "coming still down rabbit holes"
    Is not the subject

    Ummm perhaps "Why does time become still at speed of light" be slotted in

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  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The same article argues that your dining table doesn't exist, so I think we can safely ignore it. Next!
    This expert does not claim that time does not exist, so this article is irrelevant.

    This one mentions quantum loop gravity - a subject I know little about (and I'll wager that Michael 345 is in the same position of ignorance).

    It seems to contradict itself, though, because it claims that quantum loop gravity has no time but also that it describes space and time as little loops. Which is it?

    The same article also refers to some philosophers who seem to be rather confused about the whole subject, for example asserting that causality might somehow (they don't specify how) exist without time.

    There is quite a lot of talk about the "arrow of time", but all such discussion presume there is something for which an arrow can be specified.

    Conclusion: these three articles are rather underwhelming when it comes to making an argument for the non-existence of time.

    My favorite section of article number 3 is this quote:

    Some physicists have gone so far as to imply that denying the existence of time, or defining it only as an illusion, is in line with certain current pseudo-scientific or mystical currents that present themselves as a misrepresentation of Einstein’s words. After all, the fact is that the existence of time cannot be falsified, or its non-existence proven.
    I agree with the first part. The last sentence, however, is incorrect. The existence of time is falsifiable, in principle. For instance, if we were to observe everything happening at once, we would disprove the idea that events happen in some kind of sequential order (which we call time ordering).

    The existence of time cannot be proven in the sense of giving a mathematical proof or something like that. But nothing in science can be proven in that way: not the existence of human beings, not the existence of light, not the existence of atoms ... nothing. At best we can say is there is a whole heap of evidence that points towards the existence of all of these things, and no evidence that disproves their existence.
     
  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Seems like we have a Write4U imitator

    Very brief skip though his post

    Misquoting (getting wrong) articles almost as if they had not been read

    Write4U became a finger wagging school master (main reason I Igged him)

    Unfortunately that option is not available to use on this imitator

    Who promised to ignore me but then gave themselves an out by saying they would check and correct any mistakes I was making

    Sure I will make mistakes and have no problem being corrected by any ANY member except a finger wagging school master Write4U imitator

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  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Michael 345:

    If you're not mature enough to discuss your pet topic without being hurt by criticisms of your central claim and the arguments you advance in support of it, it might be better for you to leave the conversation for now.

    If you're at the point where you think that making ad hominem attacks is the only viable course left to you to save face in the discussion, that's another good reason for you to leave.

    The alternative is that you continue with this babyish tantrum. Or grow up a little and try to defend your position better. You must face objections head on, rather than trying to run around them or ignore them.

    Your choice.
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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