ISU (Infinite Spongy Universe) Model - SciForums Update 2018

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by quantum_wave, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    If I understand the definition fully, it also includes; "becoming", "emergence".

    Thus I would add a:
    3. What can it become?

    As far as the Universe being infinite and eternal, as well as energetic, I find that concept difficult to process, from what I know about current cosmology.
    It begs the question; Eternal Energy? It doesn't answer 1, 2, and 3 , does it?

    But does it have to be eternal?
    Moreover , eternity nullifies any concept of time. Eternity is timeless and permittive but is not energetic , but rather static.

    And is that not contrary to mainstream science, which gives a detailed account of the origins of this (our) universe. If we assume a prior state of the universe, are we not talking about a universe within a universe?
    Perhaps a multiverse?

    If we can argue for such a condition, then of course , everything else becomes relatively simple, but then we are not speaking of origins of the "Wholeness" itself anymore.

    What aspect of the grand unified eternal wholeness was causal to the eventual emergence of our current (geometrically bounded) universe? It was energetic? Ok, why and how?

    My question is if there is a natural mathematical restriction against something becoming from nothing?

    Are we not constantly creating something (thoughts) from nothing? I find that an intriguing question.
    And when we use our own subjective universe (our brain) and apply energy to our thoughts, they often become reality, no?

    Bohm called it "insight intelligence". A logical field, which mathematically converts abstract potential into a hierarchy of abstract orderings, into abstract patterns, into constructs, the process of which in itself is abstractly energetically dynamic, into energy.

    If we consider the abstract complexity of the physical nature of our universe today. Did any of it exist before the BB? Thus what we see today was once nothing, according to Lawrence Krauss. (today an empty lot, tomorrow a highrise). Something emerging from Nothing.
    It sounds weird, but is it?
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    very interested in this thread.
    though i am only able to process the science at a certain rate.
    thus my post here to make sure i note that so its easy to find.
    and to the Author so you know you have interested partys and to continue disucssing if so desired
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  5. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Good point; Metaphysics could also include what it can become, and look at the observable universe to emphasize your point.

    No, it doesn’t answer those, but Cosmology is not Metaphysics, and is not philosophical to any where near the same extent.

    I understand how difficult it is to process the infinite and eternal, but if you look at it from the perspective that if it is not those things, then we are back to arguing about the definition of nothingness, and no common ground exists between the philosophy that nothingness either has or does not have potential for becoming and emergence. If it does, it is a philosophical position, metaphysical, and if it doesn’t, it is more of a scientific distinction.

    True, according to the Implicate Order, and to what can be conceived philosophically and metaphysically.

    But the term "static" on a grand scale, meaning the "static" of a steady state cosmology still accommodates the small scale, which is a finite Hubble view of only the observable portion of the grand universe, and that limited view is almost nothing, almost nowhere, almost never, relative to the infinite space time and energy, the possibilities that cannot be disregarded.

    Perhaps so. Please remember my disclaimer about the difference between known science (developed in accordance with the Scientific Method), and my proclaimed intention to speculate about the “as yet” unknowns. Mainstream science, and even science that goes beyond the consensus but remains true to the required methodology of the scientific method, including the peer reviewed academic papers, clearly recognizes a role for speculation as its initial inspiration.

    The argument is that:

    1) the universe is not geometrically bounded

    2) there was no beginning

    3) the extension of the Cosmological Principle, is called (unimaginatively) the Perfect Cosmological Principle.

    Here is the difference:

    Cosmological principle

    In modern physical cosmology, the cosmological principle is the notion that the spatial distribution of matter in the universe is homogeneous and isotropic when viewed on a large enough scale, since the forces are expected to act uniformly throughout the universe, and should, therefore, produce no observable irregularities in the large-scale structuring over the course of evolution of the matter field that was initially laid down by the Big Bang.

    Perfect cosmological principle

    The perfect cosmological principle is an extension of the cosmological principle, and states that the universe is homogeneous and isotropic in space and time. In this view the universe looks the same everywhere (on the large scale), the same as it always has and always will. The perfect cosmological principle underpins Steady State theory and emerging from chaotic inflation theory.[30][33][8]

    I believe there is such a restriction according to my definition of nothingness.

    Our thoughts are the doings of our brains and minds; hardly nothing, right?

    Yes, for sure.

    It isn’t weird, but it is philosophical and not scientific if you employ the scientific method.

    [video link see above]

    Thank you for the video which I watched. It supports your position, but does legitimately bring up the main arguments of my position; those being that if there was a beginning of the universe, what was the first cause, and it acknowledges that there is a legitimate debate about the potential for something out of nothing, and that the definition of “nothingness” cannot be the one that I have been promoting, i.e., it must have a potential for space, time, and energy. Potential for something is not nothingness.

    It is that need for a potential that separates the scientific from the metaphysical, isn’t it?

    Note: I hope you will respond but it is quite a task to respond to every point, so choose those more important ones and we can get to the rest in due course

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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    That's the way I am framing the question also.

    Does infinity itself contain countable dimensions? Could we extrapolate associated dimensional potentials, such as tensors or vectors as enfolded aspects of an infinite large object?

    Is a "metaphysical condition" necessarily incapable of producing a physical "potential" of some kind?
  8. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    I find myself working on the premise that the infinite and eternal universe features a finite set of invariant natural laws. I'm not done imagining ways for that to be true. One thought is that there are an infinite number of physical orientations of structured wave energy patterns composed of identical energy quanta, and each particular orientation can determine a different combination of physical laws that come into play. Can those conditions produce an infinite number of combinations of physical structures emerging from a finite set of physical laws operating on an infinite number of quanta, or is it unnecessary for the combinations to be infinite as long as the mind is free to imagine infinite possibilities? Now that seems metaphysical to me, lol.
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    This has always been my intuitive perspective. The metaphysical state of potential is the Implicate Order, the enfolded blueprint of that potential which is to become physically unfolded and manifest.
    In your OP you mentioned a "spongy universe" can you elaborate a little more, please.
    I wonder if the concept of fractality is related to the sponge.
    I ask this in view of Renate Loll's proposition that the fabric of the universe itself displays a fractal function.

    and these very interesting presentations about the phenomenon of physical matter.


    This is fascinating stuff. Wave Functions, Fractality, and Potential.
    That's getting pretty metaphysical, IMO.......

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  10. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Wade into the thread a little and see if you begin to get how I describe the ISU, but given your involvement with metaphysics, the ISU is dull

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    The recent posts are being modified from another forum where I am further along with the latest ISU model update, so consider the content here to be on a time delay, except for discussions with members like you that inspire new content for the model. I still post time delayed content here because over the years I have had many discussions here, which have contributed to the development of the ISU model, and I remember those days fondly.

    Only indirectly; I don’t invoke the fractal universe model because I don’t yet understand its mechanics, and the ISU is about the “how” the universe works from my perspective. The CDT universe goes beyond the simple three dimensions of space and the single dimension of time, and the ISU invokes those restrictions. Further, the ISU is not a spacetime model because I replace the curvature of space with what I call the gravitational wave energy density profile of space.

    Also, the ISU mechanics are not the same as in Quantum Mechanics either. I develop the ISU more for my personal satisfaction of having a model of the universe that I am an expert on, lol. I use a methodology discussed earlier (as I recall) called Reasonable and Responsible Step by Step Speculation to fill the gaps between known science and the "as yet" unknown. Therefore, the ISU is internally consistent and not inconsistent with generally accepted scientific observations and data but it is full of speculations and hypotheses.

    It is interesting, but right away it takes conceptual liberties that I’m not on board with, and that would take me a big investment of time to understand. I’m still bogged down in understanding the standard model and QFT, lol.

    I’ll take a look at the attached videos when I get to my home wifi which doesn’t us my data plan.
  11. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Post #48

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    To continue the time delayed ISU update from The Naked Scientists forum:

    26) The hot dense-state wave energy environment of each new arena is an expanding ball of gravitational wave fronts, so dense that there is not sufficient separation between them to allow the presence of individual wave-particles. This is the point in the gravitational wave energy density profile of space where the hot dense ball is like a particle itself; an arena level particle in the big bang arena landscape of the greater universe. The accumulated crunch is the dense core of the arena particle (the result of the inflowing wave energy from parent arenas), and the outflowing wave is the big bang, the expanding hot dense arena wave the initiates the new arena. The arena particle at the macro level, and the hint of mass at the quantum level represent nature’s two extremes on the scale of the presence of mass.

    27) Also, the hot dense-state wave energy environment of each new arena is nature’s lowest entropy energy, which represents the restoration of usefulness of wave energy content of the old cold matter in the parent arenas. However, only a small fraction of the low entropy energy content of the mature arena will take the form of detectible matter (4%). The energy of that goes into the process of expansion of the new arena uses the lions share of low entropy energy in the form of dark energy (75%) to fuel the expansion. The other low entropy wave energy will take the form of dark matter (21%), in the form of the gravitational wave convergences in space that are the hints of mass (dark matter) that affect the shape and motion of galaxies in the maturing arena.

    28) As maturation of the new arena puts the arena wave of energy to use over billions of years, it will result in a mature galaxy-filled parent arena where the galactic structure is all moving apart. The separation of the galactic structure in the mature arenas is the result of the conservation of momentum that was imparted to the wave particles that formed within the parent arenas in the early stages of expansion. The future of the new arena, and the fate of the hot dense-state energy in this new arena will be the same as it was in the parent arenas that preceded it, and in their “grandparents”, for an eternal heritage of the past.

    29) Here is where we discuss the formation of wave-particles in the new arena. It is a process of decay of the dense-state wave energy that starts out at billions of degrees, and cools rapidly as the force of energy density equalization causes the initial expansion of the hot dense-state energy. The expansion initiates the decay process, and individual “standing wave” patterns of wave energy separate out into very exotic particles with huge amounts of mass, perhaps that equate to the massive Higgs mechanism and boson, whose mass will in turn will be imparted to more and more stable types of wave-particles.

    30) There is clearly a huge amount of energy in space, and the ISU model supposes that the energy in space is carried by gravitational wave fronts that are traversing all space, to and from all directions, from a potentially infinite history of the emission of gravitational wave energy from wave particles and objects. That wave energy accounts for the energy in space and makes up the composition of the gravitational wave energy density profile of space, and is intimately involved in the processes that accompany the preconditions to each big bang, and conditions associated with the new arena.

    31) On that basis, every point in space has gravitational wave energy convergences of multiple wave fronts converging in varying magnitudes, governed by the directionally inflowing gravitational wave energy that is coming and going in every direction through the energy profile of space. In the ISU model, gravitational wave front convergences each produce a “hint” of mass, and the number of different wave fronts converging at each point produce a net energy presence at each point in space. These hints of mass form a foundational oscillating wave energy background that assists the motion of light waves and gravitational wave energy through space, employing the concept that two or more converging (inflowing) gravitational waves will produce an outflowing wave which is referred to as the “third wave” in the ISU.

    32) During the wave-particle formation period, as the hot dense ball of plasma expands and cools, the standing wave patterns become more stable as a result of the now sufficient space into which the new arena has encroached upon as the arena expands back into the space formerly claimed by the parent arena.

    33) The nature of the standing wave patterns, though still in a dynamic expanding environment, are now quantized, meaning that the mass of each wave-particle can be determined by the number of meaningful gravitational wave convergences within the space now claimed by each individual wave-particle (the particle space).

    The force of quantum gravity in the ISU to be continued …
  12. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Reply #49

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    Continuing the force of quantum gravity in the ISU …

    34) Within the particle space, meaningful gravitational waves are continually converging across the entire space. The convergences each form a momentary high energy density spot or hint of mass, and the sum of energy in all of the spots at any instant equals the mass of the wave-particle. That sum, divided by the number of spots at that instant, establishes the energy value of the average quantum increment within the particle space.

    Note: Each convergence, at any given moment during the determination of the value of the quantum, can contain a slightly different amount of energy because there is a time delay between the inflow period of the spot formation and the completion of the convergence peak. During that time delay, the wave convergence incorporates multiple wave fronts from different directions, which contribute to the energy peak. Upon reaching the quantum of energy, the peak moment is followed by the emission of the third wave, which is quantum, and which converts the hint of mass at the moment of the peak value, into a third wave which distributes the accumulated wave energy spherically, to continue the process of quantum action within the particle space; wave energy, to hint of mass, to wave energy is the sequence of events that is continually occurring throughout the entire particle space.

    35) The third wave formation can be depicted as two (or more) quantum waves converging at a point of intersection, and causing a growing overlap space to form around that the point of intersection, which then emerges and expands spherically as the third wave when a when a quantum of energy is accumulated in the overlap space, as depicted in the following image from a previous thought experiment:

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    36) The point of completion of the energy accumulation, as the energy in the overlap space reaches the peak value of a quantum of energy, can be calculated using the ISU quantum equation (the same equation used to determine the point at the macro level when two or more converging parent big bang arenas reach critical capacity, just before the collapse/bang):

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    "tex" \frac{VcapR}{V_R}+\frac{Vcapr}{V_r}+\frac{VcapR}{V_r}+\frac{Vcapr}{V_R}"/tex" = "tex" \frac{1/3\pi H^2(3R-H)}{4/3\pi R^3}+\frac{1/3\pi h^2(3r-h)}{4/3\pi r^3}+\frac{1/3\pi H ^2(3R-H)}{4/3\pi r^3}+\frac{1/3\pi h^2(3r-h)}{4/3\pi R^3} "/tex"

    The force of quantum gravity in the ISU to be continued …
  13. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Reply #50

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    37) It is the ISU sphere-sphere overlap quantum equation, and as the description says, it works with the process of quantum action, at both the macro and micro levels. The diagram, showing the sphere-sphere intersection has two spheres and each sphere has a cap (called a spherical cap at Wolfram Math ).

    VcapR/VR is the volume of cap R divided by the volume of sphere R. That gives you the ratio of the volume of cap R to the volume sphere R (think of it as the percentage of sphere R that is included in cap R). Follow that same approach for each of the four parts of the left side of the equation, by using the corresponding part of the right side of the equation to do the calculation, and you must assign values to each element in the diagram to fill into the equation in order to do the calculation. You end up with four percentages. Add the four percentages together to get the sum, and compare that sum to 100%. When it reaches 100%, you have accumulated one quantum of energy in the overlap space, and that marks the point that the third wave has a quantum of energy emitted spherically from the overlap space.

    Note: The calculations, using the equation, are to determine when, during the course of wave/wave overlap, a new third wave becomes quantum. There is a lot of significance given to the feature of the ISU model that I call the gravitational wave energy density profile of space, since all of the wave action going on in the density profile are subject to becoming quantum increments the make up wave-particles at the micro level, or as big crunches that become big bangs at the macro level:

    1) The profile consists of nothing but gravitational waves traversing space.

    2) Each gravitational wave originates as a spherical third wave emitted by the convergence of two or more “parent” waves.

    3) The gravitational wave fronts carry energy across space.

    4) Every point in space has a net energy density value caused by the local presence of gravitational wave fronts that are carrying energy past that point from all directions.

    5) The net value of the energy density at each point is continually changing because there is a constant inflow of wave fronts to and through each point from the gravitational wave energy density profile.

    6) Everything that occupies space is therefore composed of gravitational wave energy of some density value.

    7) There are thresholds and limits related to energy density that govern the way those gravitational waves get organized to establish the presence of the things that we observe in space.

    8 ) Every object in space has formed there after a big bang event initiates the formation of a new big bang arena, and will be negated into its constituent wave energy when it gets captured in a new local big crunch.

    9) Entropy is defeated, meaning that the progress of how useful energy gets used up is continually advancing (entropy increases) until the cold dead matter of old, aging and maturing arenas gets renewed into low entropy when a big crunch reaches critical capacity and collapse/bangs, releasing a huge ball of hot dense wave energy.

    10) The ISU model features the processes of big bang arena action at the macro level, and quantum action at the micro level, that together orchestrate the continual change from matter to energy and back to matter across the big bang arena landscape of the greater universe.

    38) This image is a revision of the large scale action depicted in an earlier image. It represents a patch of the landscape of the greater universe that shows the macro objects and large scale structure that is composed of gravitational wave energy, wave-particle by wave-particle. It includes visible arena boundaries to help improve on the earlier version of the image:

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    39) At the opposite end of the size scale in the ISU, are the tiniest meaningful wave convergences. I have called them hints of mass, or high energy spots at the convergence of gravitational waves, and when they occur within the space occupied by a wave-particle, they are the quanta that make up the total energy of the particle and account for the mass of the particle.

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    40) In the following image, the high energy density spots are shown at the center of the wave particle, and the spherically outflowing gravitational wave energy is shown converging with the directionally inflowing gravitational wave energy arriving from the gravitational wave energy density profile of space:

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    The cause of quantum gravity in the ISU to be continued …
  14. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    Reply #51

    50) Directionally inflowing gravitational wave energy from distant particles and objects replaces the spherically outflowing wave energy emitted by the core. The lighter “spots” surrounding the core space represent the newly forming high energy density “spots” or “hints of mass”. Notice they are depicted to be much more numerous in the direction of the highest inflowing direction of the gravitational wave energy density profile of space:

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    51) In this next image I try to depict the movement of the wave-particle core through the background occupied by the gravitational wave energy density profile of space. I have added a semicircle of six new high energy density spots to image of the wave-particle core in the direction of motion. Each new spot in the image may represent millions of tiny new gravitational wave convergences occurring in the core space. I have also added a semicircle of light spots that represent locations formerly occupied by high energy density spots whose presence has been replaced in the direction of motion.

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    Wave-particles and objects move in the direction of the net highest density of the inflowing gravitational wave energy fronts from the gravitational wave energy density profile of space.

    That is quantum gravity at work in the ISU model of the cosmology of the universe.
  15. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    The ISU model version of quantum gravity is about gravitational wave energy, and how such wave energy is emitted, absorbed, and traverses space. Clearly it is hypothetical and speculative, and so I posted it in the Alternative Theories sub forum. Since the last posting in Dec. 2018, the ISU model has evolved, and since I see the thread is still open for activity, I will post some updates.
  16. river


    What is the source ? Of this gravitational wave energy ?
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Please do. This is very interesting and I should love to learn more about ISU.
  18. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    The idea is that the source of gravitational wave energy is objects with mass which emit gravitational waves, and they also absorb gravitational wave energy from distant sources. Space would therefore be filled with gravitational waves coming and going in all directions.
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Firstly, congrats for at least admitting that your model is purely hypothetical I read back to the few original posts, and find them interesting.
    Some points:
    The thing is that cosmology, probably more then most branches of science, is about modelling.
    That modelling by necessity, must explain what we observe.
    It must also explain better then the current incumbent model, by either falsifying a certain aspect, or explaining an aspect the incumbent model does not explain.
    If it doesn't do that, then you are pissing into the wind.
    Let me also say that any model that can explain or give insight into that first .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds [10-45 seconds] would then be superior to the BB, which is the current best understood, explanatory model we have.
    If that were the case, each and every young up and coming cosmologists would be chaffing at the bit, to be the first person to adequately explain this.
    There are simple reasons why this epoch cannot be observed and/or explained. We simply lack the tools and technology to view at those depths. This is why string theory and its many derivitives remains purely hypothetical.
    The closest we get to such epochs is with our particle accelerators like the LHC and the RHIC.
    We can speculate all we like, re multiple BB's etc, but it remains speculation.
    My own gut feeling/speculation is that our universe/space/time evolved from a quantum fluctuation in the quantum foam, and that this "quantum foam" is the "nothing" that our universe/space/time arose from.
    Either that or the universe is infinite in extent.
    Perhaps an eventual, observable QGT may shed more light...if such technologies can ever be realized.
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Yes, mostly collisions between really massive objects like BH's Neutron stars etc.
  21. river


    And they would also interfere with each other .
  22. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

    I understand the reasoning behind those who take the position that the source of gravitational wave energy is mostly massive events, like you say. However, in the ISU model, all objects with mass emit as well as absorb gravitational waves as part of the process, and so the energy traversing the space between massive objects is continually absorbed and reemitted. One important premise of the model is that objects move in the direction of the net highest source of gravitation waves arriving from the surrounding space.
  23. river



    Interesting ;

    The net highest source of gravitational waves fluctuates .

    What is the medium ? Of GW ( gravitational waves ) .

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