It's much easier to apologize, than it is to get permission

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by wegs, May 3, 2019.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    yeh, well
    i did apologize
    sort'a
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No wonder. You flattened his lawn. He wanted it cut.
     
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  5. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    C'mon! You lost your rag in a completely inappropriate venue, and got an easy pass anyway.

    Which reminds me. Someone I would like to apologize to and can't, is the man at a Toronto hotel check-in desk, about five years ago. I made the reservation a month before the trip, paid the whole shot on-line with a credit card, got confirmation from the booking agency. When we arrived, they never heard of us.
    I lost my rag. V. bad scene.
    They had a room, and did all the paperwork to make sure I didn't get charged twice, and our stay was fine. I wish I hadn't piled on that one poor little guy who wasn't even responsible. never saw him again, never learned his name.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You probably got him fired. How does that make you feel?.......

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  8. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Not a literal apology, per se. But, more like ...''I decided to go ahead and edit the wording that we used in the last presentation. I hope that's okay?'' This was after waiting for days, for a response to a question that I had about a related presentation that was nearing its deadline.

    In your case, you should've apologized!

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    What's funny about your story though, is you were right. It was just your delivery that might have come off as offensive.
     
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  9. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    No bloody way! There wasn't anybody else in the lobby and the place was too cheap to have cctv. He's fine. It's not the first or last time he got piled-on by an irate customer. Even so, i'm sorry.
     
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  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    If it makes you feel any better, people in customer service get that kind of thing every day.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The number of times I've been in a room with people who pitch fits about unplanned willy-nilly as a distraction from actually making a plan ought to be significant. Those people, however, tell me it would be wrong to find any significance in habitual behavior bringing undesired results.

    There is a person I know, and it is hard to describe his job because it's not what you might think if you read the sign on the door as you go in. In fact, for all the time I've known him, I've never figured out what his actual job is. The one thing I know is that whenever I have to work with him, we run into a weird conundrum whereby he doesn't like people just up and making arbitrary decisions, but there is no procedural checklist because he finds such things somehow loathsome. It's not the sort of thing people express in simple capsules, like describing their politics as if it was a singles-section tweet. The result, though, is a weird cycle of attending patchwork tasks that don't actually appear to do anything, fashioned entirely in the moment, and this ought to be what it is, except everything seems to be arbitrary in exactly the manner he disdains, yet the idea of actually establishing even a proverbial checklist seems to offend him, and very nearly existentially. Acting without permission doesn't work; seeking permission is, as a mundane experience, extraordinarily problematic. The quiet joke is that it seems the purpose of the department is to get precisely nothing done; the problem with taking the joke seriously is that nobody can figure out why it would work that way.

    And that, weirdly, sets us a nice, black-velvet background: The problem with apologizing instead of getting permission is what passes for a good idea.

    More practically than my bizarre experience, for instance: Maybe you or I know how to hop the supply line, and we also know a secret about how to reduce budget expenditure compared to the appropriate bureaucratic way of accomplishing something. Actually, it's not much of a secret; everybody knows it's faster and less expensive to just order it online and pick it up at the store down the street instead of follow the standard requisition process that takes days. Indeed, it's a common grumble about the bureaucracy. And if the bosses get mad because we loopholed the standard process, we can always apologize later, sure, but what about our colleague, over there, who has decided to hop the supply line in order to buy lesser alternate components because he reduces expenditure by going through a friend? He can always apologize later, right? After the substitute component overheats and damages the larger unit? And, hey, when the insurance people start asking about that appearance of a kickback, maybe you and I would find it ridiculous that he would point to us, who simply acquired a correct part faster than normal, and without any kickback, but, honestly, experience tells me to generally presuppose against people understanding the difference. Maybe the prosecutor whose opinion counts can figure it out, because part of the job is to not prosecute crimes that did not occur, such as a kickback never even proposed, to speak nothing of given. But it won't necessarily matter to the company, especially if our hopping the supply line, even having acquired the proper component and not any substitute, disrupts a warranty or, worse, insurance policy. The one who understands what seems a fundamental and obvious difference cannot necessarily save us from thirty other people whose opinions matter, e.g., managers and board, who consider other important differences. Not only did we disrupt company business by skipping out on the way things must be, we also set a precedent another exploited to even more disruptive results. Apologizing will not necessarily save us. Still, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

    There are all sorts of things that can go wrong with apologizing later instead of getting permission. In the end, each decision is to the beholder.
     
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  12. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Ughhh. I know this type. Would you consider him to be passive-aggressive? (at least in his response to efficiency lol) How do you personally handle these situations with him?

    I smiled reading this, great points. I wonder if it's not only about egos as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but also about trust. We don't trust each other, as a collective, not as in ''you'' or ''me'' or ''them.'' But, as a collective, we are afraid that one bad business decision could cause our firing. And that too, is what might keep that guy you work with, sitting on a fence, never committing to any decision. He's afraid to say no, or yes...but, "maybe" suits him because who gets fired from a maybe? Just my rambling ideas about it, anyhow.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    When i tried to change the oil filter on my new truck the filter woud not turn - even started to “crunch” so i took it to the dealer for them to change it an the oil (for free)... the lady told me that it wasnt time for my oil change yet… even tho i showed her the maintance an owners manual that said it was time… she said ther wrong - so i went home an plannin on callin sombody to verify what she had said… an after i was home for about an hour she called me an said that she talked to her boss an that it is time… an i coud brang it back anytime i wanted… i said ok… nest monday mornin at 7… when i showed up that monday mornin she told me it was not time for my oil change… i reminded her of her call to me the week befor… she seemed flustered but reluctantly allowed my oil change... so i figered alls well that ends well an brout my truck back agan for the next free oil change… an the lady told me it wasnt time for my oil to be changed… i thout i was in the twilight zone… i tried to convience her wit the owners manuals an that we went thru this the privous time but she woud not budge… said that they had just got the new charts in that prove its not time for my oil change… an she said she woud print out a copy for me… an while she was doin that i picked up the chart she was goin by… an she was readin the chart wrong… i showed her an she said very sorry an will change the oil right away… oK… once agan alls well that ends well… an when they was done i got a paper sayin what all they had done… an i asked her why they had put 32 pounds in the front an 30 in the back tires… she talked to a mechanic about it an she showed me on a computer screen whare 30 an 32 was corect - even tho the label on the door said 30 in front an 30 in back… she said the label is wrong… an after i got home i looked up the info online an found out that the label was wrong on some models but not mine… an after the tires had cooled in the shade for a couple of houres i checked the tire pressures which were… 31 32 33 an 34… no big deal -- more funy than anythang… they also rotated the tires… an when i checked the torque it was over 150 on each nut… an it was suposed to be 80 ft lbs… that wasnt so funy… an i had to use a braker-bar to get ‘em loose… i didnt get mad… just a bit disgusted… an have been changin oil an filter an rotatin tires myself ever sinse.!!!

    In Concluson:::

    Dont get mad... just do it you'rself an get glad

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  14. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Don't ya just hate it when people are obstacles? lol
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Just one more "pain in the ass".

    When I had my business, some folks wrote me checks, and some wrote them to me, while other's preferred to write them to my business.
    ok
    no problem
    until
    a teller at my bank refused to cash, nor let me deposit a check written to my business
    (damn--damn---damn,.......and more)
    ok
    so I went to see an officer
    who
    between phone conversations, looked up my account(which had much more than the check in hand) and initialed the check
    which I then deposited
    routine set in
    when I had a check written to my business name, I would turn left upon intering the bank, and toss the check on the bank officer's desk.
    He would initial it and I would deposit or cash it.
    and Then
    one black day I walked in, turned left,
    and there
    sat the offending teller
    negotiations failed
    and
    I walked down the street and opened an account in another bank after explaining my dilemma and requesting the service I had gotten from the previous bank's previous bank officer.
    She agreed
    and
    by the end of the following month, I had transferred all of the account holdings into the now current bank.

    The new bank was also multilingual---as was our neighborhood
    Every day I walked in there, I could here conversations in polish, spanish, ukrainian, etc.....
    I really enjoyed that

    sometimes,
    getting away from pains in the ass can lead to unexpected joys.
     
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  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The Peter Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
    " people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". In other words, an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."​
     
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  17. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    The only thing standing in the way of getting things done, are other people!

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    Glad this worked out, in the end.
     
  18. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    This might explain all the mysteries of the universe, honestly.

    Leading people, as opposed to managing them, takes a different type of skill. Maybe one that can't be learned. I have a tough time working for people who are poor leaders, yet expect respect.
     
  19. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Managers are often people who want to be managers, not people who are capable of managing. Most groups have informal leaders who have no title or authority but whom people naturally follow. Unfortunately, many organizations can't seem to merge the two ideas.
     
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  20. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Most people are oK... but the worst is tryin to do bidness over the phone wit someone whos in a hurry to get off the phone insted of showin the least bit of interest in solvin an issue... dont ya hate it when you call back an the nest person gives you diferent answrs... lol.!!!
     
  21. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Well, an example of this topic played out today in my workplace. I work with a pathological liar, don't know how else to describe this jerk. Anyway. He consistently doesn't adhere to policies that we have agreed to as a team, in terms of how we deal with project deadlines. He will do what he wishes, and then plays dumb after the fact, and apologizes. He did it again today, and was called out by one of the VP's who said ''If you do this again, you're fired. Do you understand that?'' And he walked away.

    The liar looked at me with wide eyes, and his face had turned beet red. He asked me, '' why would he say that?''

    Seriously, dude?

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    He plays the victim all the time, acts frazzled and like he didn't mean to do anything wrong. I don't wish for anyone to be fired, but if you are a liar and you don't care about how you're affecting your team, then you should be fired. I'm surprised that the VP blurted that out in front of my entire group, but something tells me...he had enough of this guy's nonsense. I can't stand this guy, and I pretty much can get along with anyone. But, there's something about people who deliberately do the wrong things, then play dumb, and in turn, play the victim when they're called out.

    It goes to show, some people have limits. If you have a chronic habit of asking for forgiveness, instead of permission...you might just find yourself out of a job.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's a bit too graphic. How about I'm glad things eventually worked out.

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  23. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    You're bad. :=}
     
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