I've never met a Christian

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

    I never met a Christian. I mean, I never met anyone who loved their enemies, or gave their house to someone who stole their car, or hated their family, or thought that you could command a mountain to throw itself into the sea and actually make it happen or thought that fruit trees, that have no fruit, should be cursed, or that disease is caused by the possession of demons called Legion.

    I have met people, who are now dead, who thought the world would end in their lifetime.

    Yesterday (1st June 2017), two Jehovah witnesses called at my house, much to my delight. One was a woman who told me she used to work for the Police. I assume she told me this fact in order to back up her belief that the world will soon be transformed by Jesus.

    I pointed out that in order to be a Christian, you have to believe, for example, that when Jesus died, many saints got up out of their graves and walked into the Holy City and were seen by many.
    We are not told what they did later.
    Did they have lunch and then go back to their graves, I asked.

    She said that she didn't believe that this story was in the Bible.
    I suggested she look it up on the Internet.
    To my surprise, she announced that she doesn't use the internet.
    So I had to look it up myself and told her the book, chapter and verses.

    She got out her J.W. Bible and declared triumphantly that the Bible says "Holy People" not "Saints".

    After this clarification, the dispute continued until I summarized by saying that believers have to believe that impossible events are not impossible. I also said that in theory, God could explain to us exactly how his special powers work, so that we could thoroughly understand them, just like in science class. She then said that if that happened, we wouldn't need faith. At that point, I got frustrated and said "Jesus!", which was a mistake, because they both left and I don't think they are coming back soon.
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  3. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

    Not even they would deny that the bible was not actually written in English. Perhaps they could identify the original Greek word and offer a translation.

    It is the duty of every caring parent to teach children what they don't teach in school. One of the most pressing issues they need to know is how to get rid of unsolicited religious missionaries without actually punching them in the face. So thanks for the suggestion.
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  5. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    I've met a real Christian. You can find them.
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    I'm not sure if I have mentioned this in the general forum on another thread but

    the last religious door knocker I had

    (about 5 years ago) I explained to him that

    I would not buy washing powder at the door step

    I then asked what could he say to convince me that I should entrust

    my eternal soul to his religion

    He struggled for a while but I am guessing because there was no chapter and verse to quote from the bible I didn't get a answer

    Never heard from them since

    Think I'm on the lost cause list

    Suits me

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  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    I try. I don't always succeed. But then again, better to make the effort than to give in to greed and selfishness.
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Is this kind of like saying I've never met a Liberal, because I've never met someone who gave most of their income to The Arts, and the rest to PETA? Because, if you don't actually wear your heart on your sleeve, you're not a capital-L Liberal.

    It seems kind silly to declare that, to be a Christian, one must be actively devoted to every aspect of it 100%, and that any less causes one to fail to be Christian.
    billvon and exchemist like this.
  10. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member


    It seems silly to declare a book to be 100% true, accurate & inerrant & claim to believe in it & follow it with all one's heart & soul yet contradict most of it with words & actions.

  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Indeed. That would be one reason why most Christians believe no such thing. I quote a passage from the Wiki entry on biblical inerrancy:-

    "During the 18th and 19th centuries, various episodes of the Bible (for example the Noahide worldwide flood,[21] the creation in six days, and the creation of women from a man's rib) began increasingly to be seen as legendary rather than as literally true. This led to further questioning of the veracity of biblical texts. According to an article in Theology Today published in 1975, "There have been long periods in the history of the church when biblical inerrancy has not been a critical question. It has in fact been noted that only in the last two centuries can we legitimately speak of a formal doctrine of inerrancy. The arguments pro and con have filled many books, and almost anyone can join in the debate".[22]

    Again, from the same article:-

    "The Catholic Church's view was authoritatively expressed by the Second Vatican Council, citing earlier declarations, in the following terms: "Since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation".[11] The Council added: "Since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words."[17]

    The doctrine of biblical inerrancy, in the way you portray it, seems to have been a recent development, mainly in the USA, among certain Protestant groups. It is very far from universal.
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

    the old testament is closer to the origin of base nature and what most christians are, so there are a lot of christians or similar whether they are religious or not.

    paradoxically, if humans want to advance, they must defeat god and evolve beyond it's archaic base corrupt nature.

    i would liken god to a political conservative. they have traditionally had the most power because they are closer to a root but that doesn't mean they represent the best one can become.
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    So apart from

    translation of the bible the

    translator is required to

    read the mind of god

    (which I understand to be a non starter)

    they also must read the minds of the writers

    No pressure

    How about the pope using his hot line to upstairs

    Hey god I'm going to leave a pen, ink and paper in this locked room

    When I come back I expect to see a neat copy of

    • What you did
    • Why you did it
    • What you want us to do (in PLAIN language)
    • Leave out so and so begat so and so. No one is interested in who slept with who
    Have you forgotten we can't marry but are expected to give marital advice?

    And NO repeat NO miracles

    We have enough trouble convincing the rabble your invisible and live in the sky

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  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Anyone can talk to god anytime they want.
    Those who claim that god talked to them just might be insane.

    (old joke)
    I once met god.
    Her beauty was beyond compare or comprehension. Everything about her put me in rapture, especially hew voice
    I stood before her for over 4 hours just listening.
    Later, it dawned on me that I had not understood a single word that she uttered.
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    People have been interpreting scripture and developing ideas from it, for two thousand years. Theology, they call it. You can get a degree in it at some quite good universities, to this day.
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    I've heard you can get a degree in

    The Analysis of the Navel and how it Affects your Ability to Solve a Crossword Puzzle depending on your Navel being a Inney or a Outey

    The University of Cereal Packets

    Not sure which one would be of the best use

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  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    I've talked to a few gods

    Or more specific one god who came under my care in various guises at various times in a very restricted situation

    Most of the time I was trying to convince him to take his medication

    I'm fairly certain I was not the wonky one

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    As I say, you can get a degree in theology at good universities, the sort that do not deal in Mickey Mouse subjects. Trying to ridicule it from a position of ignorance is generally a dangerous line of argument.

    Theology is, whether one likes it or not, a very intricate subject which has preoccupied some of the best minds in history and informs a vast amount of European thought and culture. If you want to understand history, art or literature, you bump up against theological ideas pretty rapidly.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    And a Degree in Theology allows you to....?

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  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    See above as amended.
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Ah, the old Theist Strawman... Very popular guy. He's usually the only guy to show up to a debate.

    It is folly to build up a contrived, hypothetical "perfect" simalcrum of any belief, and then attack that as if it represents every one of its followers.

    It is also folly to pretend that theism - of all human endeavors - has a 0.000 tolerance standard. You are 100.000% perfect at it, or you are a fraud.

    Do you hold the same standard for atheists I wonder?

    If you'd met me, you would say I was not an atheist, because once, when I was startled, and I blurted out "Oh My God!". I also celebrate Christmas.

    This clearly means I am a fraud.

    Atheist Straw Man is a perfect 100% in his absolute dismissal of all things spiritual.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Well, that's not how most Christians define their Christianity. Christians don't have to be perfect to be Christian. They just have to believe Christ is their personal savior. Christians accept their fallible natures.
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    I'm a Atheists

    I celebrate Christmas


    Because the thieving christians stole the pagan celebration from us

    There we were having a good piss up

    Along come thieving christians

    "Oh this looks like a good time for our god to have a birthday"

    Now its all - buy presents - go to church - put up with the relatives

    Nothing like a christian to put a damper on having a good time

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