Judeo-Christian Bible--Proof, Divinely Inspired

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Alter2Ego, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Alter2Ego Registered Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    Unlike the bibles of other religions, there is EVIDENCE the Judeo-Christian Bible was divinely inspired by Jehovah. For instance, the Bible contains almost 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophesies, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events. Secular history and archaeology bears this out. In addition, Bible writers had information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.

    Example #1: It was not until the 4th century B.C.E. that the Greeks correctly theorized a spherical earth. But they were never able to prove it. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the "New World," most educated Europeans CORRECTLY THEORIZED that the earth is a 3D circle or sphere. More than 2,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan circumnavigated earth and proved it was indeed circular, the prophet Isaiah stated that the earth, when viewed from outer space, appears as a circle.


    "There is One who is dwelling above the CIRCLE of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell," (Isaiah 40:22)

    Example #2: It was not until 1687 that Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration, Moses wrote the viewpoint description that, when viewed from outer space, earth appears to be hanging upon nothing (indicating invisible gravity), as follows:

    "He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place,HANGING THE EARTH UPON NOTHING;" (Job 26:7)]


    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
    1.
    How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E. —more than 2,700 years BEFORE astronauts in the 20th century confirmed that earth appears like a circle when viewed from outer space.

    http://didyouknow.org/sailing/http://www.rmg.co.uk/magellan

    2. How did Moses know that the earth hangs upon nothing, indicating invisible gravity, considering that the book of Job was completed in 1473 B.C.E. and it wasn't until 1687 AD/CE that Isaac Newton published his theory about gravitational forces—3,160 years AFTER Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing?
    http://inventors.about.com/library/i...s/blnewton.htm


    3.Where did Isaiah and Moses get this information?
     
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  3. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Let's start at the first sentence of the Bible. Yahweh, who you call Jehoveh is not named there. Instead they name "the Elohim".

    So your premise fails on that count alone.

    Also, why are you posting Primitivist apologetics on a science site?
     
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  5. Alter2Ego Registered Member

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    Aqueous Id:

    The word Elohim is simply a title that means "god" or "gods". The God of the Judeo-Christian is identified almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament as YHWH, and the most commonly accepted English pronunciation of YHWH is Jehovah.


    I happen to be posting in the Religion Forum of what happens to be a science website. Is it possible you are not aware that religion forums are specifically designed for discussion of religious matters? And is it possible that you did not notice that all of the threads in this part of the website are centered on religion?


    Alter2Ego
     
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  7. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    There is no competent evidence any such person ever existed or that he is the source of any text in the Bible.
    Because the optical illusion, standing on a very large spheroid and scanning the scene in 360° azimuth, is that it is a disk, not a sphere. You are merely assuming the authors had a sphere in mind. In Jeremiah they think it's flat, sitting on legs like table.
    This has nothing to do with Yahweh. It's a matter of observation, nothing more.

    There is no evidence any such person ever existed. There is no evidence that such a person authored any text of the Bible. If such a person did author any such text, then this proves the author was not Yahweh. In fact Moses would deserve blame for destroying the only text claimed in the Bible as authored by Yahweh.
    Incorrect. The cult which perpetuated this myth is merely revealing its ignorance of orbital mechanics.
    Incorrect. No one knows for sure when it was written, certainly not to 4 digits of precision. Research it for more information.
    The two ideas are unrelated. Legends about how the Earth relates to the bodies in the sky have no bearing on the work of Tycho and Kepler, which made the first attempt to answer this based on evidence. Besides, if we say the Earth "hangs" in the gravity of the Sun, we are still wrong. We need Big Bang theory, evidence of supernovae ejecta and accretion, and the theory of planetary accretion to give the Earth its kinetic energy to "fly" (not hang and not float) around the Sun. This passage is simply another false myth.
    It's not information, it's erroneous conjecture, nothing more. The authors of the text named Isaiah are unknown but they merely recorded the myth as it was handed down to them and/or they invented it.

    The question about Moses is moot since it is based on a rumor that the legendary character Moses wrote parts of the Bible.

    Even if all of your theories were correct, none of them lead to Yahweh as the author of the Bible.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No there isn't.

    This is a false claim.

    No it doesn't.

    1) you'd have to show that he did KNOW, as opposed to just making a claim.
    And, in fact he didn't know, because the Earth isn't a circle. Sphere != circle.

    Plus, of course, you appear to be ignoring all the other mentions, e.g.
    Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth… reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.”
    Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world"
    Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."
    None of which is possible on a spherical Earth.

    Actually it was the 6th century BCE.

    Wrong.
    It was widely accepted - and had been ESTABLISHED since the 3rd century BCE - that the Earth was spherical.

    Which says absolutely nothing about gravity.

    Bearing in mind that they didn't "get information", they merely made claims (one of which was wrong) it STILL wouldn't prove "divine inspiration" you'd have to rule out all other sources - e.g. logic, wild guess, alien intervention, made up sh*t because they thought it sounded good... etc. etc.


    I think you missed the point.
    What AId actually wrote was "
    Also, why are you posting Primitivist apologetics on a science site?" i.e. what you're posting is stuff that has already - multiply and tediously - been shown to be WRONG.
    If you're posting RELIGION then stay away from making scientific claims.
    If you're making scientific claims then expect to have them treated as any other scientific claim.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  9. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,612

    I'm not sure whether the Greeks were the first to speculate that the Earth was spherical. What they did was demonstrate that it is true. Not only that, they actually measured the Earth's size quite accurately.

    (The way they did it was to send out expeditions to points known distances north and south of each other, then had those investigators erect vertical posts and then measure the length of the shadows cast by the Sun at high noon on the same day. Plugging those figures into some spherical geometry (very cutting edge for the time) and turning the computational crank, they arrived at a figure for the Earth's size that's very close to the figure that's accepted by science today.)

    A circle isn't a sphere.

    Most of the ancients in the Middle East in the first millenium BCE thought of the Earth as a flat circular disk. The idea certainly wasn't unique to the ancient Hebrews, it was common "knowledge" of the time. Why circular? Stretch your arm out to point in some arbitrary direction. Then rotate on your heel to take in all the directions in which you might travel. The tip of your finger will trace out a circle.

    Above the disk of the Earth, ancient cosmology imagined the dome of the sky, the so-called 'firmament', blue during the day and black with white dots on it at night. There was less agreement as to what was under the Earth.
     
  10. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    It's not a title; that assumption is false. It's a Semitic transliteration from the Ugaritic, in reference to the gods of their pantheon. Research it.

    Was Yahweh one of the Elohim?
    Among Primitivists, maybe, and scholars before the 20th c. But not today. So why do you prefer it?

    That isn't what I asked.

    Are you the umpteenth sock puppet of the nut who keeps sneaking around, injecting Primitivism into the site, scrapping for confrontation by college educated folks?
     
  11. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    You do have a way with words. I could have just clicked "Like" but it didn't quite measure up to your quintessentially penguinaciously duckalicious posting style. Sitting ducks, no less.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    7,740
    Genesis 1:6-8
    Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” 7And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. 8God called the space “sky.”

    This is one of the "prophecies" not born out. The "waters" of the heavens and other descriptions of the sky make it obvious that no one who wrote the Bible knew any more than any of man of that time.
     
  13. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,612
    JamesR invited her to do it.

    http://sciforums.com/threads/god-as-a-man-made-concept.143518/

    I see nothing wrong with it. It's a good topic for discussion.

    While I disagree with her views about the scientific value of the Bible's contents, discussing these things gives us the opportunity to get into ancient cosmology and the history of science, which are topics that interest me.
     
  14. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,152
    Realizing that it often is used as a rhetorical question, I should have worded it differently. Let me do that here and she can reply if she wishes.

    "Are you really interested in feedback from folks trained in science who will disprove Creation Science, or are you motivated by a desire to discredit such posters?"
     
  15. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    The folks who keep arguing in favor of aether seem to be hoping to make this passage come true.
     
  16. Alter2Ego Registered Member

    Messages:
    64
    Aqueous Id:
    Maybe you should explain that to the publishers of the Encyclopedia Britannica. They devoted five (5) web pages on Isaiah's biography--the same Isaiah for whom you claim there is no "competent evidence". Not that encyclopedias are always right, but imagine that: the biography of a fictional character in an encyclopedia.
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/295133/Isaiah



    False. There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible that indicate earth is LITERALLY "flat, sitting on legs like table." The key word here is "literally". Now, suppose you prove your claim by quoting scripture?

    I will deal with the remainder of your comments later.


    Alter2Ego
     
  17. Alter2Ego Registered Member

    Messages:
    64

    Dywyddyr:

    As all those reading this thread can see, all you are doing is merely denying. Denials, in and of themselves, are not effective rebuttals unless they are accompanied by evidence in support of the denial. You presented nothing except the usual "I don't believe it because I don't want to." To rebut my OP, you must bring more than your opinions.


    Alter2Ego
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,227
    Apart from where I provide quotes from the Bible you mean?
    As for my "denials" that's simple - That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
    You made unsupported claims, those would be the ones where I merely said "Not true" and the like.

    And assertions, in and of themselves, are not effective unless you provide evidence. You haven't done so.

    Why?
    You've offered nothing more than opinion, falsehood and cherry-picked quotes.
    Now do you see how it works?
     
  19. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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  20. Alter2Ego Registered Member

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    Dywyddyr:
    Of course I presented evidence in my OP. Your comment, bolded in read, is your poor attempt at dismissing evidence you cannot overcome. Below is the evidence again.

    1. In the 8th century BCE, at Isaiah 40:22, the Prophet Isaiah wrote--under divine inspiration--that earth is circular when viewed from outer space. He wrote that more than 2,500 years before 20th century astronauts confirmed it.

    QUESTION #1 to DYWYDDYR: How could Isaiah have known that earth is circular when viewed from outer space, considering humans were earthbound at that time in history?


    2. In the 15th century BCE, at Job 26:7, Moses wrote--under divine inspiration--that earth, when viewed from outer space, appears to "hang upon nothing." He wrote that more than 3,000 years before astronauts in the 20the century confirmed that earth appears to be hanging in space with no visible means of support.

    QUESTION #2 to DYWYDDYR: How could Moses have known that earth was floating in space, at a time in history when no human could have known this?

    I will watch for your response to my two questions.


    Alter2Ego
     
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Ah yes... Jehovahs Witness... i worked wit one an he was a real nice guy... an thru the summer sometimes Jehovahs Witnesses come to the house to tlak to me.!!!

    I also worked wit a Morman an he was a real nice guy also.!!!
     
  22. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No you didn't.
    YOU MADE CLAIMS.

    Actually that's not, according to the quote you gave, what he said.
    Let's try again: "There is One who is dwelling above the CIRCLE of the earth".
    No mention of "as viewed from outer space".
    It's a claim that the Earth is a CIRCLE.
    It's not a circle.

    He didn't KNOW and that's not what he claimed.

    1) It's still just a CLAIM that he wrote it "under divine inspiration" (and it's doubtful that "Moses" wrote it).
    2) Since he had no evidence for his claim then it remains just that - an unsupported claim, that, in this case, just happened to be close to correct.
    3) Let's take it at face value though, just for fun. How's this Job 26:11 "The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof". So, could you show me where the "pillars of Heaven" are? Or this - Job 9:6 "He shakes the earth from its place
    and makes its pillars tremble". Can you link to a geological report that discusses these "pillars of the Earth"? Still wanna claim it should be taken literally? (Except, of course, for those passages that YOU decide shouldn't be taken literally).

    Yeah... bearing in mind that you appear to have completely ignored my last response (post #5) - to the extent of claiming I hadn't made one (i.e. the bit you didn't bother quoting or referring to in post #14) - I'm not gonna hold my breath.[/quote]
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  23. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    You sound like a nice guy also!
     
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