Kim Jong Il dies at 69

Discussion in 'World Events' started by gendanken, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    Since it came up...
    I will try to do some reading-up on techniques of mind-control and deliver a well referenced OP on Friday.

    Re: Gustav's charge that to declare them brainwashed is to infantilize them...

    Why? it's everywhere in their culture.
    In my own culture they spoonfeed us American superiority and exceptionalism...and even though there's no punishment for rejecting that other than low-grade mental dissonance...not too many people do.

    The Iraq clusterf*ck had a 96% approval rating before we went...You know, I was one of the few running around saying this is a war we don't need and should not fight.
    The worst I got was a note on my car regarding my flagrant anti-war stickers..:shrug:

    Finding out about US war crimes is as simple as going to the library and reading the relevant books, but most Americans could not be bothered.

    So...I see an example of no lack of information, little censorship, little coercive tactics...and the people still believing the lies the government tells them. So, considering that, I fail to see how saying the people of NK are subject to "brainwashing" is infantilizing to them.

    Too, the United States seems to end up with lots of cults...like Roach Motels for their adherents sometimes-they can check in but can't check out:
    http://www.rickross.com/reference/waco/waco12.html
    http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html

    But yes, some of theNorth Koreans probably do love their leader very much.
    They have no other reference.
    I am not saying they are in any way inferior or childlike...but it's rather analogous to an abused preschool child.
    To them, the hunger, terror, and propaganda are just the way the world is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Moderator note: gendanken has been banned for 3 days for insulting other members.
     
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  5. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    James,

    Just for reference (as I'm sure I'm wasting my breath), Bells has done her own fair share of insulting.
    But, it's ok. The abuse just keeps us in line as Kim Jong Il has so aptly demonstrated.

    You know, I heard that Bells not only controls the weather, she also, more importantly, influences the grunyan runs. That's why the merpeople love her but hate Il. What do merpeople care about the weather?
     
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  7. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    What? You didn’t show him your tits?

    A few academic critics challenged him but I found it interesting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reynolds_Myers#Reception_among_academics

    North Korea: The Cleanest Race
     
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    What merpeople?
    What do you mean, merpeople?
     
  9. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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    First off, Gendanken is twisting my nuts but, in a way that is making me want to read more of her ravings.
    Next, correct me if I'm wrong but are a few people getting caught up on the precise defintion of brainwashing here? Brainwashing... Ok, so technically not applicable (generally) as there hasn't been (for those grief-striken - presumably) a forced change in their original perception of events but rather an absence of available information in which they could have formulated an opinion other than the states propaganda. But, removing the potential for exposure to opinions differing from the states is sort of a proactive "brainwashing", no?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  10. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    lets eyeball.......

    it is absurd to propound the notion that the n.koreans are incapable of subversive thought. that they are incapable of thinking the great leader is a charlatan and a joke and they do not snicker at his ludicrous pronouncements. i mean, how would one even know this? are you intimately acquainted with a statistically significant segment of n.korean society to make such a determination? do you have some studies that conclude with such a finding? why do you think you are assigned a minder when visiting if these people are allegedly mindless drones trusted to make all the right noises without being stage managed?

    does the great leader isolate each and every individual and break them down one by one into a state of mindless compliance? or would he take the more practical route of simply forbidding specific sentiments to be expressed out aloud? and that this voiced opinion if heard or reported would result in harsh penalties? it is violence and fear that yields results not futile attempts at mind controlling an entire populace

    a n.korean's direct experience of deprivation is somehow buried deep within his psyche by some cognitive trick simply because the tools of propaganda utilized by the regime are deemed to be effective to the point that it overwhelms any rationalization and independent thought. the dissonance is overwhelming and contradicts what is in plain sight

    that is the level you infantilize the n.koreans
    you deny them even an iota of agency. to you they are subhumans and it is seriously morbid ideology that compels such denouement. you project your fears.

    lets eyeball....

    there are no useful distinctions there
    the conceptual underpinnings of "understanding" and "relating" is a system of belief whether induced by propaganda, myth or reason. it is filtered thru those prisms. if the great leader maintains they are more prosperous than s.korea and they have no independent means of verification, they would tentatively accept the pronouncement. this understanding translates to a belief so what point are you trying to make here?

    seriously? now the n.koreans are raving lunatics?
    they can maintain they are living in a land of milk and honey while simultaneously starving to death? this really plays out like a fictional novel to you, does it not? commonsense be damned, orwell rulz!

    /snicker

    ahh
    it all makes sense now
    shall we go speak out against the walmart cheer as well?

    why the bracketing? not sure anymore?

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    sure it is reasonable but the overriding expectation is not some half baked theory of the mind but something more tangible like hardship and opportunity
     
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Do you know how easy it is to lose one's job in the Western economy?


    Is that what you do - cry enough, show enough emotion, do enough of anything that will help you keep your job and your status in the community?

    Of course you do.
     
  12. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    How does that relate? Lost the connection here.
     
  13. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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    Wynn, are you mistakingly quoting information you haven't read?? I can't believe that you would purposefully ignore what you've quoted to post loosely associated drivel in an attempt to oppose a point of view you've yet to establish. Horseshit....
     
  14. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Because Bells likes to assume and vehemently support the idea that we, Westerners, have not been brainwashed / indoctrinated. (Esp. that she hasn't been brainwashed / indoctrinated.)

    Of course we are. The methods and contents of brainwashing / indoctrination may vary across time and countries, and they may sometimes be very subtle or scattered among many sources - but we are nevertheless brainwashed, indoctrinated, held in check by fear for our bare survival.
     
  15. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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    Complete horseshit.... "EXPOSURE" is the culprit here. There are varying degrees of it dependant upon your available resources or aptitude but, information is available in it's entirety should you seek it. We are NOT held in check by fear.... by ignorance perhaps, but that's another story....
     
  16. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think the North Koreans are faking their crying.

    Imagine the weight of realizing that you live in a country, in a world, where no matter what you do, you eventually lose. Imagine the weight of realizing that the same hardship you have been going through is likely going to continue forever and ever, regardless of the country you live in or the people you associate with.

    Who wouldn't cry.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Think of your words next time you tell a palatable lie.
     
  18. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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  19. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Indoctrination has been successful when the subject internalizes the indoctrinated beliefs and considers them their own.


    Focusing on the misery of others tends to take our focus away from our own problems ...
     
  20. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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    This is brainwashing... correct. Now, use it appropriately.

    Focusing on our own problems tends to take our focus away from the misery of others....
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  21. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    In the beginning, in 1948, Chaos, an amorphous, gaping void encompassing the entire universe, and surrounded by an unending stream of water ruled by the god......
     
  22. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    You're probably being sarcastic?
    But...that's almost the level of distortion of the outside world they likely have.
    And...of course not everyone buys into the propaganda...or conversely, they are just so incredibly miserable they are willing to risk anything to get away, no matter where it takes them.
     
  23. Ellis Registered Senior Member

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    105
    Yarp, I believe that's a more "common sense" assessment of the dilemma.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011

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