Medicare for all?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Beer w/Straw, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I don't view The Young Turks as whatever they say could also be picked up by another news vendor anyway. However, the the description of this peeked my interest:

    One thing that got me thinking though was Medicare for all. Could something like that quell groups like QAnon by treating mental health issues?
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    To a certain degree, it will help. Even more than direct address of this or that believer through mental health instruments, though a United States in which "insulin rationing" is not a real thing will alleviate not only such manner of absurdly inflicted suffering, but also the psychological tolls of supporting and participating in such a cruel society.

    Supremacists, for instance, have of late been seeking shelter in lamentation of economic circumstance, but there is much wrong with that argument and the cover they are given by sympathetic leftists. To wit, those who could afford to fly to Washington, D.C., stay in a hotel, and party like a riot turned insurrection are better off than such lamentations of economic circumstance describe.

    Over the long run, M4A will shift the focus of, and likely reduce, the sort of mass crackpottery that drove the Wednesday Putsch, but it's not a cure.
     
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  5. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Medicare for all won't compel anyone to use it. Paranoiacs don't necessarily think they're sick.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Imagine being the attorney writing the brief claiming tort because single-payer means the client, who became a patient through no fault of their own, such as getting shot by a white supremacist at Walmart, isn't getting billed for the medical services that saved their life. Imagine demanding a client's right to be forced into extraordinary and unpayable debt: "Petitioner seeks civil rights relief of being burdened with current and future extraordinary medical debt that can never be fully paid off without external assistance."

    Even more so, right-wingers have been surprised, of late, to find that if they truly test the police, cops will pepper them, at least. Oh, right: I would say, "Ask Ashli Babbitt", but we can't. Still, though, she was declared dead at the hospital; I wonder who gets the bill.

    Society isn't going to leave these antisocials to die in the street; we will still take them to hospitals, whether it's losing an eye to a less-lethal round, or broken bones after tripping in middle of it all and getting trampled, or lying on the grass with a brain injury after taking a haymaker during a drunken initiation fight.

    And imagine suing the single-payer system for violating a client's right to be burdened with debt of such magnitude as to permanently diminish one's quality of life.

    Oh, wait, I'm sorry. I made that way too complicated.

    Imagine being a lawyer suing the single-payer system in order to demand your client's right to have to ration their insulin because they cannot afford the gouging price.

    What, you can't tell me there isn't a diabetic among that lot.
     
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  8. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    I have no idea what your point is?
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Well:

    "Medicare for all won't compel anyone to use it." — Yes, it will.

    "Paranoiacs don't necessarily think they're sick." — For the most part, that doesn't matter.​

    Now, why is this? Because in either case, these individuals will eventually require medical attention. At that time, they would enter the single-payer system. And maybe some don't think they're sick, but at the point they get scooped up in an ambulance and delivered to a hospital, they will enter the system.

    My point? Consider the absurdity of being that attorney, writing that tort claim, as part of the client refusing to be compelled to use the single-payer system.

    In a weird way, I don't actually disagree with your post at #3↑ insofar as there is a context by which I get what you mean. But inasmuch as those two sentences are actually incorrect, the extremity of the counterpoint is a demonstration of its absurdity. Sometimes I remind that function matters, and in this case it seems worth noting that the argument against being compelled to use M4A would involve demanding the right to endure financial ruin in exchange for living through the day.
     
  10. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Access to reliable and competent medical care would greatly reduce anxiety throughout the middle, working, marginal and unemployed classes, which in turn would greatly reduce all kinds of strife, tension, street drug abuse and even mental illness. It might reduce some kinds of crime, juvenile delinquency, school leaving and absenteeism.
    It doesn't raise the IQ of the lunatic fringe, but a greater sense of physical and financial security would certainly loosen their grip on a large part of the population.
    The lunatics might not seek help, but once they commit crimes, they could be forced to receive counselling in prison - assuming that the qualified personnel were available. It would require training more medical staff, and probably licensing immigrant doctors more quickly, so that they could legally treat members of their own expatriate society.
     
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  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I can't understand why anyone would want to pay medical administrative services to a cadre of for-profit Insurance Co's. , when a single not-for-profit MFA administration could use all that extra money (millions of dollars) for direct medical care delivery.

    The big lie is that countries with MFA are not happy with their system and that the US system provides the "best and most efficient system in the world".

    Seems that the current pandemic has proven the terrible medical care delivery system under which the US labors, whereas single payer countries had a comprehensive system in place to deal with a pandemic.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    As a Canadian, with universal healthcare, I see Americans putting up with things so horrific they cause me to lose sleep at night.
    I watch Frankenstein just to calm me back down.
    Like savages, you will let ailments percolate for years/decades - because you can't afford to get them fixed.

    Just a sample of patients from the TV show Dr. PimplePopper:

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  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Not so sure about that

    During training for my Registered Nurse (was already a Enrolled Nurse) working in the Emergency Department we checked people as they arrived with basic observations and placed all of their charts in order of seriousness

    Some were so low on scale they would remain on the bottom for a long time on busy nights

    The longest, from memory, was around 6 hours for the doctor, to prescribe a box of Panadol

    I would be OK if the patient was living on the street but this person I knew some information about and I knew he had money, knew he had nothing more than a low grade headache

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  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And so would the typical Republican voter.

    In fact, they will pay double for their own medical care to ensure that the patients living on the street are abused in that fashion - at least the ones who are not white. They have proved that in more than half a century of national debates and votes.

    That uniquely American political stance is possibly the single most important reason the United States has the worst performing medical care system in the First World, as well as the most expensive by far.
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    My remarks were in response to the view of mathman ie
    mathman ---Medicare for all won't compel anyone to use it. Paranoiacs don't necessarily think they're sick.
    Michael345 ---Not so sure about that - Gives example

    NOT ME ABUSING ANY PATIENTS

    And as the example patient has paid his fees he is well and truely earned his right to sit there for 6 hours and collect his box of Panadols

    I find it strange is as far as I would go

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  16. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Your ER seems understaffed. What has this got to do with "Medicare for all is not compulsory" or "most paranoiacs don't think they're sick"?
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Australia Medicare is compulsory, it is 2.5% additional tax added. If you earn over a certain amount you are expected to have Private Health Insurance. Over a certain amount and you don't have private Health Insurance Government increases the 2.5% tax for Medicare

    Also if you go to a Public Hospital and have Private Health Insurance the Government will bill your insurance for your hospital stay and the cost of your treatment and the doctor's treating you will bill you extra, which you pay, ie does not come from your insurance

    While sitting for 6 hours for a box of Panadol could be seen as abuse of the system in reality it is merely using the system

    From memory there was about 8 nurses and 2 or 3 doctors day shift, 5 nurses evening with 1 doctor, 2 nurses, 1 doctor nights with on call specialists each shift

    Somtimes on night shift with a pregnant nurse both pregnant nurse and doctor went for a short (seperate times) sleep

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021

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