Mike Pence for President

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ivan Seeking, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    Pence just broke with Trump and endorsed Ryan. There has also been talk of secret "what if" conversations behind the scenes in the GOP in regards to an optional candidate. Trump's staff is extremely frustrated and he is nearing a point of mathematical impossibility to get elected

    I am smelling a Pence candidacy.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They're in denial.

    Pence showing independence of Trump is just fine with all concerned - give the voters an excuse.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Everything about that seems to require extraordinary quirks and twists along the way; to the other, this is also the year when such unusual outcomes can crash down like autumn rain.

    But we might start with the basic idea that it's a little late; they should have made their stand at the convention.

    To the other, whatever we might think of Republican writhing, hemming, and hawing about Donald Trump, the Republican National Convention really did, in and of itself, make the point. And after as much cruelty as conservatives can show military families, the sharp escalation of a particular attack to the presidential theatre, in a year when people are alreday extraordinarily sensitized toward a morbid phenomenon of cruelty, incompetence, and apparent stupidity that just doesn't seem to stop, it would appear the attack against the Khan family is our textbook case under textbook circumstances; this is where people draw the line, and are deciding to make a stand. As with the Donald Trump Show, the situation only continues to get worse.

    Essentially at some point the Republican National Committee is going to have to find some way to declare Mr. Trump incompetent and unfit under the rules and bylaws of the Party. That will require a pretense of process, and what happens when they strip him of the nomination?

    It's August. Even if everyone is ready it will take until next month to complete the maneuver. The prospect of Pence starting an actual presidential run at about seventy-five days out is thin enough to see through.

    But that's where the consideration becomes fun. Think of it this way: With important policy and legislation hanging in the balance, Republicans have become fond of the idea that the lame-duck session, between the November election and January inauguration, should preclude actual work. Legislation, advice and consent, pretty much any basic duty of governance assigned to Congress should come grinding to a halt, save for House investigations producing a steady stream of intentionally deceptive leaks.

    So after all the talk of an imperial presidency, and acknowledging the occasional and inevitable chatter of whether Obama will have to be forced from office after he's done, what are the chances some prominent conservative somewhere would call for rescheduling the election in order to give Pence more time?

    The problem I have at this point is the relative postures of my senses of reality, to the one, and irony to the other. That is, it's exactly unthinkable that we will encounter such a moment, yet if it actually comes, our first hindsight will be, "Of course that just happened".
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Pence for president is silly----------until Trump is assassinated, then it's a fact.
    meanwhile
    It's nice to see that Pence has a mind of his own. Trump needed a political insider---now Ryan owes Pence.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    How does playing his part in Trump maneuver indicate that Pence has a mind of his own?
     
  9. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    http://theweek.com/speedreads/64079...-trump-more-unacceptable-than-hillary-Clinton

    There appears to be a coalition forming around Ryan with Pence at the head. Reince Pridbus is reported to be furious with Trump and personally insulted due to his long friendship with Ryan.

    All of the GOP leadership much be realizing by now that if elected, Trump would be virtually uncontrollable and surely out of control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Alternately phrased: Trump ain't gonna take orders from the established status quo guys.
    Maybe Pence can smooth some ruffled feathers?
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Trump maneuver?
    Expand on that please.
     
  12. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    "Smoothing things over" is how the campaign is playing it. Trump likes to give two or more conflicting answers to any significant questions anyway. Par for the course.

    Another interesting tidbit is Trump saying that the system is rigged again. Maybe Trump got wind of the background conversations. There was even a report suggesting that Trump might drop out. But there has been nothing I've seen to support that claim.
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,476
    Nor I.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    You said it yourself:
    Trump is running against Washington, not just the Democrats. But he needs some smooth-feathered Party support - at least, not active opposition.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,476
    "... forged in the fires of discontent..."
    When a government no longer represents the will and needs of the electorate, they have the right to overthrow that government;
    by peaceful means if at all possible.
    ..............
    an alternate meaning of "citizens united"
    and, perhaps a better one?
     
  16. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    Adam Kinzinger, outspoken Rep R Illinois who blasted Cruz for not supporting Trump, now says he can't support Trump. [interview on CNN a few moments ago]
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,476
    Did he say why?
     
  18. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/politics/meg-whitman-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

    I think it was the Kahn family war. Kinzinger is an Iraqi Vet. But he was talking about Trump's refusal to support Ryan... I didn't catch the entire interview.
     
  19. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    Trump's insistence that the campaign is unified is reminding me of Baghdad Bob.
     
  20. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Crazy, or Merely Incorrigibly ... Masculine?

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    ¿Alpha wolf?

    No, really, what?

    Brent Budowsky↱, for The Hill:

    Republican nominee Donald Trump, who is showing increasing signs he may cracking under the pressure of presidential politics, has expanded his campaign of insults by attacking House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.).

    It is no exaggeration to state that throughout official Washington, including many senior members of the Republican Party, there is increasing behind-the-scenes discussion about whether there is something seriously wrong with Trump beyond usual questions of political skill and judgment.

    It is hard to keep track of Trump's gaffes, blunders and mistakes, but when he publicly insults leading Republicans in the House and Senate, including two facing imminent primary challenges, it is not unfair to raise the question―as I do here―of whether Trump is cracking under pressure.

    Eugene Robinson↱, for the Washington Post:

    During the primary season, as Donald Trump’s bizarre outbursts helped him crush the competition, I thought he was being crazy like a fox. Now I am increasingly convinced that he’s just plain crazy.

    I’m serious about that. Leave aside for the moment Trump’s policies, which in my opinion range from the unconstitutional to the un-American to the potentially catastrophic. At this point, it would be irresponsible to ignore the fact that Trump’s grasp on reality appears to be tenuous at best.

    Begin with the fact that he lies the way other people breathe. Telling a self-serving lie―no matter how transparent, no matter how easily disproved―seems to be a reflex for him.

    Michael D'Antonio↱, author of Never Enough: Donald Trump and the Pursuit of Success, for CNN:

    If Trump is crazy, then he's crazy like a fox ... or perhaps a wolf. Trump is more wolf than fox. Foxes live in small family groups or on their own. Wolves are generally considered to be more social and hierarchical. Alpha wolves use displays of strength to dominate and command in an environment of considerable stress and struggle. Trump, who marks his territory―buildings, products, aircraft, etc.―with his name in giant letters, is a dominant male who demands absolute loyalty and considers success the proof of superiority.

    For him, like the alpha wolf, any show of weakness, such as an apology or a public admission of a mistake, could signal his fall and the loss of everything that matters to him.

    Visit Trump in his den at Trump Tower and you see an alpha male at work. Trump aides and executives are unerringly deferential around him but aggressive when they do battle on his behalf. After Ted Cruz denied his man an endorsement at the GOP convention, Trump's counsel Michael Cohen called the senator a "whining baby" who should be expelled from the party.

    When a father whose son was killed in Iraq criticized the candidate's anti-Muslim statements, longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone said that Khizr Khan is a "Muslim Brotherhood agent" intent on helping Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, though he later dropped that claim. One of Richard Nixon's dirty tricksters in 1972, Stone has tutored Trump in politics since at least 1987. Long known for extreme rhetoric and tactics, Stone is no more crazy than Trump. His career even included a stint as partner in a firm with current Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort.

    In the days since Khan criticized Trump in a speech at the Democratic National Convention, he and his wife, Ghazala, have garnered increasing support from other parents of soldiers killed in action and many Republicans who have been bothered by Trump's responses to their criticisms.

    In his immediate answer to Khan's speech, Trump offered his usual alpha wolf aggression. He suggested that Ghazala Khan had not spoken at the convention because she was silenced on the basis of her Muslim faith. She explained that she was too grief stricken to say anything. In response to Khizr Khan's statement that "you have sacrificed nothing and no one," and when asked if he had made sacrifices, Trump pointed, ineffectively, to the jobs he had created as a businessman.

    Caught up in the back-and-forth, Trump didn't take the hints being offered by his fellow Republicans who urged him to change the subject and stop talking about the Khans. Having risen to political success via Twitter, he went there on Monday morning to complain, "Mr. Khan, who does not know me, viciously attacked me from the stage of the DNC and is now all over T.V. doing the same―Nice!" Minutes later Trump tried a to change the subject, a tactic that has worked in the past, tweeting, "This story is not about Mr. Khan, who is all over the place doing interviews, but rather RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM and the U.S. Get smart!"

    At the moment Trump took to Twitter, Khan was appearing on CNN's "New Day," where he called for an end to the argument, saying, "We don't want to continue. That is not our style. We are a decent, dignified family of this country, very appreciative of the blessing we have enjoyed. ... This is not our path." Indeed, Khan follows the other construct suggested by Hobbes, pursuing life in a moral community.

    Which, in turn, sounds like a distinction without a difference.

    Still, though, Hobbes? Did I miss something? Never mind.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Budowsky, Brent. "Is Trump cracking under the pressure of presidential politics?". The Hill. 3 August 2016. TheHill.com. 3 August 2016. http://bit.ly/2aW0oM2

    D'Antonio, Michael. "Donald Trump isn't crazy". CNN. 2 August 2016. CNN.com. 3 August 2016. http://cnn.it/2aU2Sxp

    Robinson, Eugene. "Is Donald Trump just plain crazy?" The Washington Post. 1 August 2016. WashingtonPost.com. 3 August 2016. http://wapo.st/2b3ewSU
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    That's Never ... er ... ah ... You've Got to Be Kidding Me

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    And then there's this, from The Hill:

    The Republican National Committee is categorically denying reports that party officials are looking into how to replace Donald Trump in case he drops out of the presidential race before Election Day.

    No one at national party headquarters has been instructed to look into that doomsday scenario, RNC strategist Sean Spicer said, and speculation that the RNC might pressure Trump to drop out of the race is unfounded.

    Spicer insisted that there is no chance that anyone else will be the ballot in November.

    “Donald Trump is the nominee of the Republican Party full-stop,” Spicer told The Hill. “That’s the reality. The rest is just a media-pundit concoction.”

    And, you know, it probably is inevitable muttering and speculation. To the other, though, is a strange, not quite customary, nearly superstitious would-be axiom that once you put out that kind of denial, the countdown is underway.

    This would of course, be the ultimate manifestation of the principle.

    What do you think? Wonder or Ray?

    Very superstitious.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Easley, Jonathan and Jonathan Swan. "RNC: Trump will be on ballot". The Hill. 3 August 2016. TheHill.com. 3 August 2016. http://bit.ly/2aW7PCC
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Forged in the fires of discontent my ass. Forged in the burning need to conceal from themselves their own four decades of gross culpability in the mess they have made of what was supposed to be democratic governance of a civilized country. Forged in their burning desire to forget how good they felt voting for George W Bush and Richard Cheney, how swaggeringly wonderful it was to have a real man as their strong leader, how loudly they cheered and how satisfyingly they showed the elites and the lefties and the welfare scum and the takers what was what, on that heaven sent day - and then what happened.

    Forged in the fires of the think tanks of American fascism, the Reagan Republican Party, Fox News, endemic racism, inveterate misogyny, and deadbeat stupidity - by which I employ Forrest Gump's mother's definition: "Stupid is as stupid does" - because no one can manipulate people by leveraging on their racial bigotry and protecting their infantile inability to admit they were wrong if those levers are not there.

    They're "discontented"? The word used to be "disgruntled" - as in "disgruntled postal workers nominate Donald Trump for President". United? Yeah, the whole "dear kind nice clean quiet Tribe " * has got together, and we're getting a good look at them. And smell.

    Citizens? In their dreams. They have to grow up, first.

    *Rudyard Kipling "The First Letter"
     

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