Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Communist Hamster, Oct 6, 2005.
Pot kettle black.
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i love the way vert ignores james and roman and pays attention to me
your friendly neighborhood troll
i love the way he gives priority to inanities
i also love the fact that he is now not just a simple mutt
he is new and improved
a crosseyed mutt
tell me this, vert
could this have been the most stressfull episode ever experienced in sciforums?
did you froth and foam? toss and turn? episodes of tourette’s perhaps?
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i wonder if you all truly understand the nature of most flame wars that occur here in sciforums. i wonder if you understand what a flame war really is, once the illogical and negative connotations associated with it are stripped away
well let me enlighten and respectfully submit for your consideration, my definition....
a flame war, in its essence, is a debate
it is unmoderated
it may be about irrelevant minutiae
it may get very ugly
yet it remains a debate
a test of intellect
yes i do. since the numbers....
gustav's posting record
World and child forums
Subcultures and child forums
Philosophy and child forums
sciforums.com and child forums
Science and child forums
Life and child forums
Technology and child forums
with special attention to this child forum
About the Members
..clearly debunked your claim....
....you proceeded to go the ad hom route. lets look at the manner in which you do so.....
gustav vs invert - a primer
gustav: you still havent justified your claim
vert : i dont have to since your posts in general are crap
you ignore your failed premise and threaten to out me.
how very insidious and spiteful of you.
you could not just acknowledge your mistake and let it go
you had to justify it at all costs. integrity and logic be damned.
it is the easiest thing in the world to drag out posts that make members look like shit. one can snip, take out of context or reproduce entirely a sizable portion of posting histories to demean and denigrate
perhaps i am average, above average......in my shit. yet..
the real question is
how did this become the issue?
why? how is it connected to the claim that i have a affinity for AtB? that i mostly hang out there? how did that morph into an attack on my intellect?
you come out of the blue and accuse me of being a flamer/troll/gossip/whatnot, why do i have to either acknowledge or deny it?
i have to know the relevance of the accusation within the context of the issue at hand
so what motivated this mutt?
is it a general modus operandi?
did he lose his cool?
doe he not know how to argue
or is he just an asshole?
me me me
he is an asshole
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Now the 10th most succesful thread in Open Government!
Not only are moderators too lax but, at times, they are far too ex -plicit.
The combination of ex and lax creates the right ingredients which could explains many of the posts on this forum.
invert? old buddy?
did you miss this?
or were you actually just intent on petty harrassment?
funny stuff, ja?
that is james addressing vert
how much credibility must we accord vert's frequently ludicrous pronouncements when he clear shows that he has absolutely no clue as to what is going down in sciforums at any given time? how can one mistake more moderation for less moderation and still be expected to be taken seriously?
is this a guy that you would want to in a position of power or influence? i mean, if he had the authority, my dialogue and his in this thread would be forever be erased from the historical record. all the flame wars from the past, the ones that are an integral part of sciforums and allows it to stand out from the rest, providing unique memories, no more.
and yet, bitches on rags is supposed to be untouchable
simply because he says so.
it is a very slippery slope the mutt walks on. the irrational judgement could potentially wreck havoc on this forum.
understand that arguments from this nut are based on emotion/holism/psychobabble
they are neither reasoned nor logical
and best ignored
True. True. You've also mentioned this before.
It's easy to fall prey to thinking that mods only act on their own initiative.
I think a lot of those 'reports' are somewhat petty though. I really don't understand people who really take such offense to things they read on the internet.
This is something I've come across before when offered a mod position at another forum. I'd view most of these reports by offended users as petty and would most likely take no action except in extreme situations.
You've mentioned 'young people' who might be viewing the various threads. That's another problem I have. I don't think this is a forum for 'young people'. Not children anyway. Sure, they can show up and can even get some good education out of the place (in more ways than one. Many parents wouldn't like some of the forms of education that might be had here, I'm sure.)
This is an adults forum. That's how it's always seemed to me. There are plenty of forums out there which devote themselves to pure, clean science talk. Where the moderators are little Hitlers expunging anything even remotely offensive. Sciforums, to me, exists in a different niche.
Don't you think so? If not, what niche do you think Sciforums fills compared to say... www.scienceforums.net. Or how about www.scienceforum.com?
The former has a large user base and many are knowledgable in their fields. There are definitely some interesting threads there. Things to be learned from reading. But it's dry. Dry, dry, dry. And boring when it comes right down to it.
The latter is... well. You've been there. It's still young but growing. The moderation there is still growing along with the site and thus hard and heavy rules are not laid down. But, it's already been show that their definition of 'minimal standard' goes much farther towards the standards of the uptight forums rather than what is acceptable here.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some 'minimal standards'. The problem is in defining exactly what minimal is. (In fact, as Gustav has suggested, the problem would become more of a problem should those 'minimal standards' be defined too sharply. There is a looseness to the rules here which do annoy at times when a post that exhibits language and/or behavior that was perfectly acceptable in one situation gets deleted or edited. But even though it annoys at those times, it would be best to keep in mind the benefits of that freedom.)
One less mod now, I note. Two forums modless. It really is tough on you being the sole supermod, isn't it?
Have you guys heard from Goofyfish at all? Or did he just vanish?
I can understand. I still don't like it though.
The problem, of course, is that edits aren't much better. But, at least edits leave behind a record of moderator 'meddling'.
That's a good lesson to learn. So. This is your new policy then? No more edits? Just complete post deletions?
'Demean' is a loaded word.
Anyway. I'll admit that those songs were misogynistic.
They were also vulgar.
Would it have made a difference to you if I had explained why I posted the songs when I posted them?
I don't think the title would be enough to make that decision.
'Bitch' and 'On the Rag' are terms that have been abstracted to be able to refer to both genders.
Haven't you ever been called a bitch? Or accused of being on the rag?
True enough. It's another discussion.
As to it being genderless or not. Let me ask you a question.
Do you (like Gustav.... Ha!) frequent the picture thread from time to time? Ever see those hot girls post their pics? Do you then assume that they're really female? Or do you suspect that they're males playing roles? I, personally, know of at least one person on the forum playing a role of the opposite gender. I'm sure there are far more that I don't know about.
In this sense, the internet is genderless.
We can't see your package or judge the size of your adam's apple.
You sound awfully sure about that.
You sure about that?
Think about what I've said about the looseness of the rules above.
You really don't think that there are times when things are cracked down more than at other times regardless of which posters are posting or not? Consider also that there are varying periods of moderator.... interest. (For instance, Goofyfish's prolonged absence. And Tiassa's as well.) And, perhaps, rather than interpreting your answer being about offensive posters being active, the prime factor might be the number of whiny reporters around? (Those who are prone to report any little thing that they don't like.)
Could you give an example of a time you erred on the side of free speech?
I'm not saying you don't, I'd just like to get a feel for your boundaries on this subject as it's all rather subjective, wouldn't you say?
And what would you consider a 'clear breach'?
The thing is that if the rules were taken literally, this forum would be just as uptight and dry as those other forums I was talking about earlier.
Would you prefer it if the rules as stated were followed more scrupulously?
Strangely, it would make your job both easier and harder.
Easier, because the looseness of the rules would be eliminated and thus you'd have to spend less time considering whether or not something is worthy of deletion.
More difficult because you'd be spending a great deal of time enforcing the rules. Much more than you do now, I think.
Has it ever been the case that taking it up with you in private has caused you to go back on your decision? In its entirety? Bringing back the whole post with no editing?
When I'm a moderator? Is that a promise?
Kidding, of course.
Understandable. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and complain.
Or perhaps it's that I've not had as much time to spend here lately as I used to.
Anyway. Come to think of it, I can believe that you've been more active lately. Simply because it's only lately that I've begun to notice this and that after what seemed like a hiatus.
When I was saying that you don't delete and edit posts as much as you used to, I was referring to way before. Like last year at this time or sometime back then. Can't give any actual dates or anything, you understand, but there was a time when you had your hands full deleting and editing. And Goofy was out there doing the same.
Hmm. Thought you were. Not sure where I got that idea from.
Anyway. You still have influence in what type of moderation the forums should have as a whole?
I should think that Porfiry values your opinion. You are one of only two mods with global scope.
What is Porfiry's position on moderation? Do you know? I don't mean specifics, just if he's into more freedom or more stricture.
I know I remember reading somewhere about how he supports Xev. That's saying something, I suppose. That was a while ago. And might simply be solidarity rather than.... validation of her moderation and/or posting style.
I had reasoned to myself that you probably were asking because I mentioned how important these forums are for me in that I have no one in real life to speak intellectually with.
That would be one negative of my lifestyle choice. You've mentioned being around people with interesting things to say. I'm not. Well. Sometimes they say interesting things. But, most of the time it's almost purely accidental and when I try to convey what it is that was interesting in what they said... they lose track and go back to sports chat or whatever.
There are pros and cons.
One thing that is nice is that one can often allow the body to do the work on its own while the mind is free to wander. Not all aspects of construction are so simple that one can remove one's mind from the task, but there are a good number of them. Enought that, if properly worked, one can find quite a bit of 'free' time to think. You can almost forget the absence of peers at these times.
Another thing that is nice is that by not devoting oneself to a specific scientific, technical, technological, whatever trade, one leaves oneself open for diversification. If you get a job that demands all your mental time to stay current in just the base information required to perform your work, then what free time do you have left to think about other things? Mentally taxing jobs do just that. They tax your mentality.
Sure, you can become quite knowledgable in your field, but at the cost of a multitude of others.
I don't think I'd be happy like that.
In some ways, it's like prostitution. Prostituting your mind. I prostitute my body (figuratively) but my mind is my own.
Think about it. The odds are that if I had followed the dreams of that young boy that still thought he'd do more with his life, I would have entered into a computer related field. Programming or some such. Maybe even something more integral. Chip design or possible even AI development (which would require both hardware and software, in my opinion.) These fields are well known for being not only mentally taxing, but also completely possessive. You don't rent yourself out. You sell yourself completely. You devote everything you have. Everything. And even then you're still left feeling that you need to give more.
I'd have burned myself out. Maybe I would have come up with some interesting shit before it happened, but I'd have snapped eventually. Hopefully I'd have earned enough money to retire by that time. Retire with a brain like jelly, but rich.
But, these are all things against going with a scientific or technical career. There are a good number of reasons for. You've given several.
I can simply say that, for me, I made the only choice I could make.
However, in a flame war feelings get hurt and defenses build to incredible proportions (especially when jibes hit close to home like they did with you) and the odds of 'winning' are greatly reduced. On both sides.
A test of intellect?
More like a test of stubborness.
I will say that some flame wars may be more intellectual than others. It all depends on how rational the participants can be. It depends on whether or not the participants can get past their own bias. A bias which grows greater with each flame.
Want to talk about it?
My posts are still back there waiting.
You know. The on topic ones? Before I accidentally broke your vagina?
Interesting how you keep attacking me as being a poor choice for a mod when I never even suggested myself for modship.
Running out of angles?
I could delete all my posts. I haven't.
What makes you think that I'd do any different if I had 'the power'?
And why do you extend my contemplation of deleting my own posts from this thread to deleting all flame wars on the forums?
Slippery slope or anything?
You're the mutt, obviously.
It's supposed to be untouchable.
You're really losing your mind here, Gusty.
How could my dislike for most of the discussions that take place in the pseudoscience forum 'wreck havoc' on the forum?
I really wonder if you're faking your breakdown. I suspect that what it is is that you realized how much some of your earlier posts show about your character. How your feelings got hurt. And now you're going overboard so that no one will think you're serious. Now or then.
You're talking about how I have no respect for you?
What arguments can be given for it?
It's how it is. There's nothing to prove. Nothing to show. Nothing to nothing.
I have no respect for you.
Simple as that.
There's no reason to make them reasoned or logical.
There's no way you can logic me into admitting that I do have respect for you. You can't reason me into it.
You're committing grave logical fallacies of your own with all this.
But, you're doing it all on purpose.
You even said 'slippery slope' as a key word. Even while commiting that very fallacy. You know, just so that if people didn't realize it themselves, you'd put the thought in their heads.
Tricky bastard, you are.
But, you're putting too much effort into it all.
I'm pretty damn sure I hurt your feelings and that's what this is all about.
Still surprising though.
I never thought you cared.
Does it hurt?
Your broken vagina?
What does it feel like?
Sciforums definitely exists in a different niche.
It is often the place for flexing egos: who is going to outsmarten, outanalyze or outscold whom. And this is not healthy.
I know I had my share in this, and it wasn't small.
it is really no different from real life. attempts to defame and slander will always evoke negative reactions no matter what the medium is
he still wonders why i am pissed off at him
why are you pissed off at him??:m:
as much as you would like to believe that you are the superior intellect in here, most of us actually do have the abilty to read b/w the lines. the ability to see thru bullshit. see, its really nothing special. just one of the benefits of being all grownup and whatnot
we have seen it time and time again in the political arena. a pr person puts out a name. the candidate denies. denies again. and finally announces..."ja, i a gonna run"
look at the pathetic freudian shit. the naked ambition......
the mere fact that you do not have the balls to simply ask, prefering instead to prevaricate, speaks volumes about your character.
you really fool no one, boy
there is something totally freaky about the usage of "granted"
the investiture of the honorable mutt into the hallowed ranks.............
after a hard day breaking rocks, he comes home, washes the grime off, dons
the robes, logs in and viola...a hallucinatory paradise.
i remember a few of our kids. bluesoul/nightfall/thor/sarge/pollux/coffee/avatar/strgrl/etc
they are all grownup now tho
it was a virtual chatfest
no one minded
until the grand inquisitor and bearer of standards came along
Sure. This happens. We're seeing an example of it right here. Sort of. But, it's not really what appeals about the place. It's more like a.... fringe benefit. Sometimes. Other times it's a nuisance.
Again. I'd say sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not.
The problem comes from entrenchment.
When the attack becomes the sole purpose then there is no purpose. Gustav can spout off about tests of intellect all he wants. Flames get boring. Quickly.
No. There's more here.
Are you telling me that you have only engaged in ego flexing and analysis and etc...? Only flame wars and poking and prodding?
You know better than that. Even Gustav can't say that's all that he's involved in.
You've learned things here. You've taught things here.
I suppose a problem is that, over time, you become enmeshed in various... rituals. Jibes. And the same old flame wars that pop up time without end.
It's easy to get distracted from what is really interesting about this place.
What's really important.
Some are so distracted by such things that they value themselves based upon their performance in such duels. What's funny about that is that the affair is wholly subjective and the odds are that you'll always see yourself as winning. No matter what.
There you go again.
I thought I didn't care.
Try to follow along.
I'm talking about people that aren't even involved in the discussion.
People that are offended by the words rather than feeling attacked.
What's really funny is when somebody engaged in 'against the rule' behavior feels so much that he's in the right that he reports his opponent. And sometimes his opponent does likewise. And then the mods come in and both get the smackdown.
Heh. Seen it happen a time or two. I'm forgetting who it was though... PaulSamuel? And Fetus? Hmm.... Can't remember. Funny anyway.
Goes to show how difficult it is to be objective about your own behavior.
Yesterday 05:58 PM
..is the longest post I've ever seen. Do you honestly think James or Roman or Poodle actually read all your efforts?
So much toil for a blink of the human eyeball and a click of his mouse when he exists.
(Gustavio, you're taco meat when I come back. MAKE ME MOD, or die.)
You think that post was long?
Tweren't nothin', ma'am.
Check [post=917931]this one[/post] out.
I think Gustav read every word (not that I expended much effort into my reply to him in that post.). Not only of that post, but the much longer one I just linked to.
His vagina's broken, you see. And he can't seem to help himself.
As to James and Roman.
Well. If James doesn't come back to read, then the fault is mine for engaging with Gusty here so long. He did pull out references I made to him from earlier long posts so maybe he'll be back. I hope he comes back.
As to Roman. He'll be back eventually.
Since you're back, Gendanken, and so many posts and posts of idiocy have been posted since my important post. Would you like me to repost something I said long ago before Gusty's vagina broke? Here. I'll just [post=916117]link to it[/post] instead. Easier I suppose.
Separate names with a comma.