I hadn't noticed that in my "remote" location Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! anyways - it's the world in me that counts
Don't get me wrong, Avi - post-apocalyptic still has all the charm that it ever did. I would just say that the social relevance of old school cyberpunk has evaporated, and so (as a corollary) its relevance to the newer roleplaying games, like Shadowrun and Talisorian Cyberpunk, is small. I mean, when you play Shadowrun, are your campaigns about alienation? Or are they more about... well... monster hunting and wheelie-dealing?
well, I wasn't really talking about games, but about the world view, but.. consider these: www.neocron.com (there's soon a new pack: better graphics, 1/2 larger game world) www.faceofmankind.com (beta stage) also DeusEx seems pretty cyberpunk to me
why the hell do people always think something loses it's relevance once it becomes mainstream? elitist nonsense. Subcultures fail when the die out not when they reach a wider audience.
You've illustrated my point, I think. The storyline for Neocron sounds exactly like the backstory for Judge Dredd, right down to the "Mega Cities". The fight for survival in a toxic wasteland is The Road Warrior, not cyberpunk. It may be that they inherited the Judge Dredd sense of a civilization in an advanced state of malaise, but I couldn't sense that from an immediate look. The Face of Mankind mentions the battle between Good and Evil right on the front page, a dead giveaway that this is not cyberpunk. The use of monsters in a game also removes the crucial messages of the cyberpunk genre - after all, how much Sartrean nausea do you feel when you're fighting for your life? In the real world most people don't go out and kill dangerous animals as their main source of income, but in RPG's childproofing the planet makes a lot of sense when you discover that every monster you kill coughs up a day's wages when it dies. Cyberpunk, in modern days, doesn't really relate to the old genre - it's more of a combination of interior design concepts, colour schemes, and fashionable street wear. That's nothing against the new cyberpunk, you understand, it does its job well - it just misses out on the reason why the old one came about in the first place. It's kinda like... you ever see Fight Club? (Aside: I didn't like Fight Club... but anyway.) Imagine a Fight Club boxing game. No nihilism, no civil war, no schizophrenic hallucinations... just boxing, a bunch of guys fighting in the basement. You can choose character classes like Janitor and Accountant. You get to pick the colour of your sweat-stained jogging pants. You can unlock Ernest Hemingway as a secret character. Maybe there's a "realistic scar system" where your face accumulates permanent damage in Career Mode. But in the end, for all that, it's still just boxing in a basement and says nothing about what the movie was trying to say. That's kinda what the new cyberpunk genre is like. Same colour scheme, same music, same revolver with the taped-up handle... but the original raison d'etre is gone. That's why I'd prefer if these games rode on their own merits rather than the tired label of "cyberpunk", since I'm sure they're perfectly good games without help from a label...
What exicites me most about this film, other then it being a completely awesome story in book format, is that Chris Cunningham will be directing this. If you're unfamiliar with his work, he did some VERY cool stuff with aphex twin, squarepusher, and bjork videos. Also some pretty interesting commercials (as interesting as marketing can be I guess). Amazing stuff, great artist. I can't wait to see this!!!!
Buffys: not always, but often. Often when a genre or collection of works becomes mainstream popular, it gets inundated with mass-produced imitations and drowned. I'm not saying that a masterpiece gets less good because people rip it off, only that people usually forget the masterpiece and remember the ripoffs. Avatar: Also, Deus Ex is a story about one or two people wrestling for the ability to steer the course of human development. Quite a good story, although I thought the inclusion of aliens was a little silly... But it's actually quite different from old school cyberpunk.
Maharajah: wasn't the Chris Cunningham Neuromancer supposed to come out in 2000? Or has a new one been announced?
I hate fight club anyways I agree with FOM , it may just turn out to be a good sci-fi mmorpg -- and about Neocron, it really is based on Judge Dred but with modifications and the newest addon will have a tron like visual interface for hacking missions/ 3d network and the game really feels cyberpunk , at least when I played it in beta. and also postapocaliptic of course (which I adore) and I don't care what is the mainstream or your view on what cyberpunk is
they actually weren't aliens but genetically engineered monkeys (is revealed in DeusEx2) old-school-new-school-don't-care-as-long-as-it-is-good
BigBlueHead: I had heard it was being worked on in late 2000.. I didn't know that they had called it quits though.. Thats really a shame. I would have loved to see Cunningham's approach to a full-length film.
According to Seven Arts Pictures, the development company, Cunningham is still collaborating with Gibson on the movie script on the film. Check out the links below for an overview of the history of the project and recent information http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/neuromancer.html http://www.nodalpoints.org/cybernetic-screen/noframes/019.htm
see BigBlueHead? as long as people feel that way cyberpunk and other "subcultures" will continue to evolve and that's all they require to survive. They only truly stagnate when nothing new is done. It's true that a flood of imitators follow popularity but there are always a few that are being true to it and creating unique, innovative works at the same time. Thats all that's necessary in my opinion, it's also kinda fun to dig through the crap to find the good stuff. Ironically, the more crap there is to dig through the more good stuff their usually is to find.
I agree that original work is necessary to the advancement of literature/entertainment/the general state of the arts, absolutely. But why adopt a tired label when you're making original work? I would have thought originality would be a draw, not something to be hidden.
remember though, those tired labels are attatched to different media by others. Rarely does an author or musician share that view. The labels are just that, labels. They help us sort our music racks or book shelves but they don't really mean much beyond that. I agree, but in primary school this kind of stuff isn't yet considered "proper" literature. Fortunately many universities and colleges are starting to broaden their views in this area.
Actualy its reveiled in one of the many data cubes laying around in DeusEx 1. I cant say anything for 2 because they didnt design it so that mortal men could play it on thier computers. Also, the first time I read neuromancer I actualy had it red to me through a freeware text to speech converter that I simply loathed. Does that give me cyberpunk cred?
