Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Mickmeister, Jan 3, 2011.
if it is well written,and entertaining, hollywood might pick it up..
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Wow, that's a brilliant idea! I'm going to write a creationist refutation of Darwin! Then when all those idiots buy it, I'll spring the trap that it's all a joke. maybe on an evangelical tv show.
I'll pay extra for a signed copy!
Oh. Wait a second, you meant those idiots, not this one.
Another miracle: God must have had to manually prevent lethality from inbreeding for the next millenia or so...
At what point does one simply say: it was either a cultural story created out of whole cloth, or a localized event?
Olive trees don't do well with "wet feet", much to my disappointment...I have the climate but not the soil conditions, not even amendable to olive-friendly conditions.
They get root rot really easily...
A quick skim of a few internet history sites(sorry, I was looking for something, and should have snagged the URL's but did not...) seem to agree the ancient Hebrews lived on the edge of Sumer, raising animals for market to the sedentary farmers, and did fairly well for themselves.
...So this hypothetical catastrophic flooding event fits the timeline the location and the tribe whose story this is. Any artifacts to prove it would be at the bottom of the Persian Gulf...(and if that body of water ever stops being so contentious, it's likely a really super place for underwater archaeology; doubtless all sorts of nifty historical debris down there...preserved in the mud.)
When someone's world encompasses just their grazing grounds and the few nearby towns around them, and that's all in a valley, it's inside the realm of the naturally explainable that the whole world gets flooded.
(To somewhat paraphrase Terry Pratchett)
As far as biblical timelines being accurate...I stumbled across this article:
And it's a very interesting article-it discusses the numbers given for ages as having religious significance in both the Hebrew and Babylonian culture.
Also, here is the Sumerian flood story, part of the Epic Of Gilgamesh...and probably...well, at least where the bible story came from.
I suspect it is built on the midden of older stories...there seems to have been (very) roughly about 800-1000 years between the life of Abraham and this flood....the timelines being as iffy as they are.
P.S.: Spidergoat, I see that you Yank Anyway...but I don't want to hear about what it is that you Yank. I strongly suspect I know the answer.
The Abrahamic creation myth is clearly an elaboration of the older Babylonian creation myth, streamlined to accommodate only one deity.
Question to Mod's.
Would it be ok if I discuss the Quran and the Ark of Noah? then comparedit to the christian version and place of its rest?
preface your statements with stuff like 'i believe this is true' rather than 'this is true'
links and references are very helpfull.
welcome back chi..
Im sorry I cannot lie and pretend I do not know the truth, thanks for your answer though i appreciate it ^^Iwill just not say anything.
As salam Alaikum
understand how and where you got your truth, share how your truth came to be your truth,
the most basic argument here that sinks believers is the question 'how do you know?'
it is a valid question.
'because i just do' is not an answer..
this is where you have been failing the users here, they need to respect you, not fear you. i have been trying my hardest to teach you how to do this.
i need you to want to learn.
When you smell a flower you know there is sweet fragrance, when you jump in the river you know there is wet-ness, when you touchfire you know there is heat.
When god guides you and touches you you know there is god. I know I cannot unlock their hearts squirrel only god can do that. SometimesI think it doesn'tmatter what I say it won't help them I don't know why I try so hard, I just don't want them to walk in darkness anymore, ive seen too many children crying.
They are going to be punishedfor their insolence and I never wanted to use this ever as some kind of tactic, ive always tried not to mention hell or their punishments but they need to understand it, forallthe bullshit they causeon earth allthe people they take away fromgod they will be punished,
I tell you trulythey will wish they were dust in the wind, to escape the fire.
some cannot smell what you smell.
jump or pushed?
some are cold..
yes this is true.
understand this. it is only your responsibility to share what you believe to be true, it is up to the other to choose to believe.
plant seeds my friend, do not insult the soil because it wont grow.
i agree understanding is the ideal, but understand that many will not be able to meet god, this is what god has said.who are we to say who gets in and who doesn't?
(which brings up another question about whether the end of the world according to god ,can be prevented) so understand that not everyone will be saved.
Brother I have planted forests, But I cannot water them. They spread their desiese and people like you allow it to fester in the wounds of the young ones. You need to speak out against this godless-ness.
Stop saying my opinion also it's annoying youknow full well it's not my opinion and it is the truth and the light. you are starting to diss please me, as righteous and kind as you are you fallback when confronted with "opinions" you use the atheist terms of "morals and ethics" You know god exists and you know it's not just my "opinion" you know i have seen the truth. But yet you will to be PC say "in my opinion i think god exists"
i speak a different language than you chi.
i speak 'think for yourself', you speak 'do as your told'
there is value from both sides, but as i keep saying this is not the audience for 'do as your told'
yes, again in a different setting i would not be so anal with my comments,i would let you lead how you see fit in your house, but remember this is not your house.
i am challenging your authority and you do not like it.
you have not established any authority,so your statement is impotent..
yes, i do believe you, but your audience does not.
if you are respected your opinion will count.
you do not know how to win their hearts..
this starts with respect not authority.
I understand your position, it is also not good to meddle and interfere in things that do not concern you, each person must walkthroughhisown door of tests i know this is true. I cannot unlock the largerlocks but maybe I have inspired some people to the right way orguests who read the site. Ifmy message has touchedpeoplethen they have been guided by god in truth i have no claim to anything. even my own child i have no boast of personal doings, everything wasgiven to us from him, he is truly the only one who deserves the high praises and thanks.
But you see Squirrel my authority cannot be challenged because i speak of the most highs law and they cannot be contested by anything. I submit my will and faith into the one creator the true god,king of kings self sufficient and sustaining I AM. You cannot contest with my words when I speak of his way.Yes you can contestme as a person and my life choices and pasto pinions etc but truly nobody can contest with my authority of messages. I quote the most high and you can not defeat his will I tell you truly.
I ofcourse am not offended personaly what good is that emotion to me, you think I have not been humbled and humiliated by god? you think i didn;t challenge him? you think I didn;t try to tell him he was wrong about things. No he has made me most humble yet you see me as some-what arrogant but no I am confident in my God and my words speak his truth.
are you saying that spreading gods wisdom is no concern of mine?
you say for me to stand up to what i believe?
so you have said that i can meddle and interfere..
what inspires some will not inspire others
this is my point and why i continue to 'interfere and meddle' with you, you keep trying to make it about you and not god. i can understand if you can't see it, and why you get upset when someone calls you on it,
god does not care about your emotional state of being, so whenever you make statements like 'kaffir', 'i will not waste my time','i am done with you', etc you are making it about you and not God.
this is where i will pick you apart, not by what you say about god, but how you are humanizing the message.
you have learned this law through the quran correct?
so are you letting a book tell you what to do? or are you listening to God?
what if the book tells you to do one thing and God tells you to do something else?
who are you going to listen to?
this is where you are being tested here. do you hear God? or do you only hear the book?
i have not seen your humility.
i see that you are pleased with yourself that you can know such wisdom.
and this is my personal mission with you, to get you to understand where your humanity is corrupting your message.
your choice is either to accept my instructions to you and heed my advice, so you can reach more ppl,
or ignore me and get banned yet again..
this is not a threat, this is a prophesy.
i want you to stay here and be heard, i want Gods message to be communicated, and in order to be heard, you have to not get banned..
The stories in the world's "holy" books are metaphors. They have been handed down from tribe to tribe for as long as humans have had language, which is at the very least 15,000 years. Many linguists suggest it has been more like 60,000 years: that language was the key technology that allowed humans to plan, organize, and transfer knowledge across generational boundaries, enabling them to successfully migrate out of Africa for the first time.
Each tribe embellishes the "holy" legends to make them seem like they are their own, to try to shield the fact that they simply got them from those who came before. The Muslims and Christians got their mythology from the Jews, the Jews got it from the Babylonians, and if we try to go much farther back than that there was no written language so it's harder to trace the paths. But many of the same motifs occur throughout the world, suggesting that they go all the way back to our African ancestors and, therefore, have been passed down for fifty or sixty thousand years.
To suggest that these stories that have been handed down since the Stone Age, recast over and over again to conform to new geography and culture, are in some way "true" is either an attempt to deceive us, or it is a sad feat of self-deception.
In either case, it is unworthy of being expressed in a place of science and scholarship, where assertions are required to be supported by empirical evidence, not vague explanations like, "It feels true to me because it's what my daddy told me and what his daddy told him, and I trust my daddy, so it must be true."
If you insist on making statements like this, and if you are getting as tired of being banned as we are of banning you, the only place where you can get away with it is on the Religion subforum. That is the only place where the rules of science and scholarship are not enforced.
No you miss-understood, I was saying "It is not good to meddle in things that do not concern you" asin "You shouldn't, or people shouldn't" not you directly as in you already do it. Because you said that you take a different approach to me and you do, you are alot more passive in opinionated terms. Ifyou were to compare my approachto yours mine would seem bigoted and "meddling" where as you would seem to be the more humble and non interfering or pressuring type. (Hope that clearned it up because what you think i meant sounds very offensive and I don't want you thinking something insulting which is also untrue)
I think maybe my humility doesnot show because I rarely speak as myself, I usualy speak gods words and leave my opinions out of it, but today i have been posting as myself as you can see the difference mostlikely, and about time aswell I was or god was allowing you all to speak badly to me and i was just going along with it i read my posts.
To be honest im not perfect and only when i speak gods words do i become pure, I sin if it wasn't for his blessings and mercy. I am very gratefulland I would gladly riskmy life to save any of you posters, even the assholes.
Your so-called "humility" does not show because you have none. You speak as though your religion is a collection of truths rather than a collection of metaphors, despite a total lack of empirical evidence. Humble people do not offer unfounded opinions as truth, especially when their opinions are of the most outrageous kind: that a supernatural universe exists, from which creatures and other forces whimsically exert influence on the behavior of the natural universe. This is a denial of the fundamental underlying principle of science and you cannot possibly expect it to go unchallenged here.
If you continue to use rhetoric implying that God is real, without offering any empirical evidence to support your assertions, you will once again be guilty of trolling and you will once again be banned. If you cannot follow the rules you have no place here. You MUST respect the scientific method if you expect to be allowed to remain among us. Extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before we are obliged to treat them with respect. That is the Rule of Laplace, one of the cornerstones of the scientific method. Any reference to supernatural phenomena like gods is the most extraordinary of assertions and must be supported or it constitutes trolling.
Please provide empirical evidence for the existence of a god, not something that you FEEL or something that your loving elders TOLD you.
i do not know what is needed when you go outside sciforums to speak,i do not know the culture you are in, so i cannot tell you what to do there as you would know better than i what is needed for your mission outside sciforums,
but i do have a better understanding than you as to what is needed here at sciforums.
have you read the link i posted as 'God Mod' do you agree with it?
do you accept me as an authority in the religious forum?
then hear me..
1, do not tell anyone to 'shut up', be silent or any other command that suggests such.
2, do not insult any other member in any way, that includes the term 'kaffir'
(this is just common sense, If God is truly in your heart then this should be a no brainer)
3, realize that just because you started the thread, does not give you permission to set the rules. or flex any kind of authority (i have learned this the hard way, as i have tried)
i would argue about bolded parts, but since you are showing some promise in this post i will hold my tongue.
I have not read it lol but nice Thread Title it's catchy, I would like to clear up one thing in this postthat caught my eye,
Kaffir, to call a random persona kaffir is wrong, you cannot do this as you know not what they think inside, But when one has admitted he is a kaffir to you then you can call them kaffir to warn other Clean people they are Najis (Unclean).
Kaffir is not a derogatory term, it simply means "diss-believers" which is a statementof belief like calling somebody a Atheist, Kaffir means Atheist there is no difference in clean-ness.
There are technical debates on this term regarding transgressing and rule breaking, people who eat pork might not be kaffirs, even though they are unclean they are not to be calle dkaffir if they belive in the one true god. As a muslim you are not allowed to call jes and christians kaffir, but Idol worshippers who don't believe in the one true god are kaffir.
Separate names with a comma.