Pathetic Pathos: The Incel Hour

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Apr 25, 2018.

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  1. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Well said, Bells. Totally agree.

    There was a guy on this forum who doesn't post here anymore, but almost every post was a jab at women and/or sexually demeaning comment towards women. Almost, like he couldn't help himself. He'd then post ''but, but...I love women,'' when his comments weren't received well by the rest of us. What does that even mean? As if he believed that his opinion of women was of paramount importance.

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    Honestly, where does someone like that get his ideas about women? Trump is another one who is constantly stating how much ''he loves women,'' as if that somehow negates his demeaning attitude and sexist comments towards women.

    I believe it is learned behavior, and quite likely, their first ''lesson'' was in watching how their dads treated their moms.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    wegs, Nov 15, 2019
    #41

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  3. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    After a racist rant, what is the first thing that a racist says..."but I'm not a racist".
     
    Seattle, Nov 15, 2019
    #42
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  5. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And he has black friends.
     
    billvon, Nov 15, 2019
    #43
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  7. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly. But, are they so obtuse to not hear themselves speak such nonsense?
     
    wegs, Nov 15, 2019
    #44
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  8. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's a delusion, i.e. Tiassa and Iceaura. They don't see themselves as others see them.
     
    Seattle, Nov 15, 2019
    #45
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  9. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I read something that the bible and it's entitlement declarations plays a part in domestic violence.
    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Nov 15, 2019
    #46
  10. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions. “The Bible made me do it,” “the devil made me do it,” etc are not excuses. Even if a guy learned the initial behavior from his own father, he still has agency for how he treats women.
     
    wegs, Nov 15, 2019
    #47
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  11. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely. However one must wonder .. could we see better behaviour if young folk were not given this entitelement BS from an early age .. it becomes ingrained.
    All I suggest is that we could expect better if the notions of primative cultures were left where they belong. In the distant past.
    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Nov 15, 2019
    #48
  12. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Xelasnave.1947, Nov 15, 2019
    #49
  13. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And the BS from Hollywood...woman are just hucks of flesh.

    Might be a good start to change the stereotype from a big breasted blonde to something less sexual and offering some indication that woman are actually people.

    If I had my way those guilty of domestic violence etc would be hung...slowly...again not as punishment but to cull the humans that behave badly.

    In this small country one woman is killed each week from an unhappy partner.one a week..you don't hear about it really, just one of those things...well make the trials and executions very public and expose the problem daily.

    You get all this hand wringing over climate change a crisis in the future and yet domestic violence is not being stamped out.

    Lamentable.

    I worked in the "divorce office" and you read affidavit after affidavit that although no death each tell one the horrific terrible story.. the problem is extreme...yet not news worthy it seems.

    I just think it would be helpful that the bible said something to the effect that woman are not property, that they do not have to submit to anyone's will and in addition that man is part of the world and has no entitlement to hold domain over it as if it were all created for man alone.
    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Nov 15, 2019
    #50
  14. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    its pretty messed up
    even most women do not want violence extracted from every day interactive processes
    big manly girls manning up to be gender stereo types to make others feel like they have not been raised to be missing some critical self esteem and fullfillment aspects ...

    who said girls dont hit and boys do ?
    girls in the fight ring ...
    contact sports...
    most tend to offer a lack of opinion rather than an equal state of opinion.
    this screams the level of intellectual and emotional immaturity that is prevalent in the majority of the population in most society's.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    RainbowSingularity, Nov 15, 2019
    #51
  15. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    how big ?

    you need to man up & take off your girly pants and show me how big it is.
     
    RainbowSingularity, Nov 16, 2019
    #52
  16. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    ... "i love them but..."
    is the common usage
    so it is a pre-loaded guilt waiver to assumed expectation of assumed discrimination

    when do you here women say "i love cock but..."
    picturing a women throwing her hands in the air saying
    "i love cock as much as the next girl, but...if he aint changing the nappies, he aint changing this channel !"

    the assumed inference of the nature of the pre defined expectation of compliance to other peoples ideologies...

    this boiled down into a left or right natured forced group/cage/prison
     
    RainbowSingularity, Nov 16, 2019
    #53
  17. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Yes and no.

    There are a lot of stereotypes surrounding women and mothers in particular for children to be exposed to. It's not just how the father treats the mother in front of them. Kids are pushed into these gender roles and girls are often portrayed as being weak, need to be protected, etc. It all adds up.

    Religious texts represented the attitudes of the day.

    In other words, the Bible was written by men, who viewed women as chattels and possessions. But we also forget one important thing..

    It exists across all religions and in non religious societies and groups, even those from non Abrahamic religions.

    For example, violence against women is a massive issue in many Asian countries. If people want to talk about "incel" culture, look at India as a prime example. The term "incel" is a fairly Western construct. Aside from being misogynistic, "incels" are also very racist. Take out the word "incel" and you have the same thing.

    If we look at how it's defined, that sense of entitlement, the view that women are commodities, that women owe men their bodies, etc, then really, looking at "incels" is just a look at how men in the West refer to themselves.

    Regardless of whether the term ‘incel’ is used in common parlance, India is no stranger to violence being meted out to women by men who feel slighted. For example, Swathi was killed with a machete by her stalker in a railway station in Chennai, Sreepriya was attacked by Rohit Kumar on her way to church; Kumar had been stalking her for a while and had professed his love for her shortly before slashing her face with a razor, Radhika Tanwar was shot to death by a man named Vijay, who she had rejected several times, and Riya Gautam was stabbed seven times by Adil after turning down his marriage proposal; he had been stalking her for a year and a half. The list of women killed or violently assaulted by snubbed men is a long one. These perpetrators too share the ideology of the incel, that it is their right to possess a woman if and when they so please.**

    ** There are embedded links in the article.    ​

    So I do not believe it is simply a Christian or religious issue.

    It's a societal and cultural issue that exists across all cultures and in all societies.

    Entitlement stems from the inability to recognise that women are human beings and have equal rights.

    Wegs mentioned a member who would frequently comment how much he loves women, while arguing that he often comments about how women look, if they are pretty, etc (street harassment) - he sees it as a compliment and that women would smile at him, or say thank you. That this is not misogyny. My response is often along the lines of 'you say this to men too, right?'. What this person fails to recognise is that women will smile and say thank you because that is what we are taught to do, for our own safety and because that is what is expected of us.

    This individual feels entitled to make such comments, because he feels it is his right. That women have a human right to not have him do this does not enter into the equation for him. It's his right to do this, and by god he will do it and women like it as far as he is concerned.. He doesn't say it to men or random men he interacts with in his day to day life, because that'd be weird. But to him, it is not weird to say it to women. Because it's just a compliment. And she will smile and/or say thank you. So that means she must like it and he'll keep doing it because that's how it's always been.

    It's not just young men. It stems across all ages and every single culture on our fair and somewhat hot planet..

    Or maybe not have a stereotype at all..

    Well, both are problems that must be addressed.

    It starts with education.

    It's not just the Bible though.

    This isn't about religion. It's about culture and it is one of the issues that spans across all cultures.

    You can put a preamble in the Bible about women not being property. But what about the billions of other people who are not Christian and/or who do not belong to an Abrahamic religion, but where this issue is also prevalent in their society?

    What drives "incels" is everywhere. And it has nothing to do with sex or lack thereof, and everything to do with how every society and culture views women. And it's not just media. It spans every aspect of society.

    Media is just an obvious example.


    On a completely different note, are you okay and safe in regards to the fires on the East coast?
     
    Bells, Nov 16, 2019
    #54
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  18. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Why not?

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    Michael 345, Nov 16, 2019
    #55
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  19. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes we are fine. Four five weeks ago was a worry and nearly lost one house with another under threat...but ladies live there..my daughter and her mum and the other a lady who is out there at the place that near burnt down. But she had the message about a man's world so I saw more than most...showed me how to see myself as others see me. My projection was opposite to me so my world could be confused I guess...I only with her input realised how controlling I was any working out there was not need to control.
    The deal irritates me..you go to the pub , you sit boys and girls eight at a table ...often the girls don't get to speak..happens..not right.. I have had one girl say, that she liked me because I was a good conversationalist...it twenty minutes I have nothing but really, yes, no or that happens to me sometimes...that reflects she does not to get to say much...
    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Nov 16, 2019
    #56
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  20. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    well said

    and give him what he demands of them so they surrender their rights

    i have been observing this as a form of verbal & non verbal bullying in general interactive culture
    the normalisation of someone expecting they have the right to force you to engage with them.

    i have only just started formulating this but i expect it is closely linked developmentally.

    are these sane people ?
    no !
    they are seriously psychologically disturbed and need to be locked up

    how does it balance the anti violence moral compass by asserting a blood thirsty revenge type policy when the judicial system is clearly shown to be not only flawed by many aspects but commonly twisted to be used as a weapon.

    what is the on flow in family court ?
    do the surviving children get a better result from the parent being executed or rotting in jail ?

    do you want to punish the assailant ?
    get revenge ?
    torture them ?
    prevent them from doing it again ?
    construct genocide to wipe out the genes if so what about the children ?(thus is there a cure?)

    when you open the gates to some things, you open the gates to some other things

    is the level set too high or too low for domestic battery ?
    are you persecuting the children to get revenge on the adult ?

    there is no simple one size fits all solution other than stop all violence
    that is the only single thing that works
    everything else tends to have consequences that directly impact the life long functionality of the children and by rights makes the prosecuting person, the assailant of the effect on the children, by benevolence or by malice, it matters not to the child/teen drug addict contemplating suicide or the child now an adult beating their own kids and partner.

    normalisation of power & control authority culture normalsy
    stereotypes are normalised and leant on like personality crutches then used to attack others who demand equal respect.
    it is fairly typical sexist culture apologetically formed around power structures where men are the dominator.
    (generically speaking)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
    RainbowSingularity, Nov 16, 2019
    #57
  21. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Please don't go all Political Correct on us

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    Michael 345, Nov 16, 2019
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  22. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i think there is a clear muddying of the waters(learned ... not intentional[if you are never given expereince to realise other forms of culture how do you define your behaviours toward equality other than the value of your parents & role models/schools community])
    projected sexual objectification as a personal sexual preference is completely different than dictatorship of stereo types.
    this idea is not easily understood by the hetero-centric mainstream

    im sure tiassa could write a book on it(probably be quite a good book though few would understand it)
     
    RainbowSingularity, Nov 16, 2019
    #59
  23. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Not going to happen

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    Michael 345, Nov 16, 2019
    #60
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