Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Cris, Jun 21, 2001.

  1. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    2,235
    Careful Devildog ...

    Before you know it, Tiassa's erudition will affect you the same way it's affected me ... it's reduced me to platitudes.

    All I could think of to reply to Tiassa's last post was ...

    "Leopards don't change their spots!"

    And even after harder thought, the best I could do was ...

    "If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're old, you have no brain."

    Give Tiassa time to mature. Maybe like wine, Tiassa will improve with age.
     
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  3. DEVILDOG Registered Senior Member

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    TO ALL......

    WHAT WAS THE TOPIC AGAIN?????

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    OH, I REMEMBER...

    Someone asked me once, "If god does exist, who has more to lose when they die? The believer or the non-believer?

    My answer to this is neither. If god does exist than how can he condemn a soul to hell because he could not believe. I say could not for the simple reason, that he was "given" a mind, heart, or whatever that would not accept the lack of proof.

    Like they say about diving in a new area....Feet first, first time. It's better to have broken legs than a cracked skull.(ok maybe a bad analogy) Why should we dive into the belief head first when we might only be filling ourselves with false hope? How can so many praise god when millions of people who <b><u>DO</u></b> believe are suffering unjustly.

    Don't go placing the blame on satan, if god is as powerful as is believed, he would have wiped him out a long time ago. The punishment for any deed against god is death, remember. Can't be anymore against him than satan.

    I would rather believe in evolution, than believe some HIGHER being would be so cruel, yet expect us to worship him, when he's supposed to be all loving.


     
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  5. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

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    You assume that there is no choice in how you believe. There is plenty of choice--in what you expose yourself to, in what you search for, etc.

    Would a loving parent give his child a $40,000 car after he already wrecked the last three? It isn't God's choice to force you into heaven. He tries to make it as easy as possible, and it is up to you to choose. Heaven isn't some place where you sit back with a beer and have scantily clad women feed you grapes all day. It is a place to be close to God, in His protection. If you do not do anything to try to be close to God now, then why would you want to be much closer forever?
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Who knows?

    Maybe I can follow Chagur's example and skip straight to vinegar.

    Yummy.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  8. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    GOD exist! And the FOOL will perish!

    Silly Tiassa, Our GOD is the authority on whom goes to Heaven or not, and did anyone mention that a Christian could enjoy some of Heaven on Earth, even through trials and conflict!? Yes we can!

    Woe unto those that call that which is 'good' evil! And the evil thing good! I have read DevilDog's and others mockery, and it only sums up as always to foolishness and hateful priedfull ignorance!

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    Your day of reconning will come! Jesus is your only hope of excape! Of the Judgment that is!

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  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Loone

    That's lovely, dear. Would you like some milk and cookies since you ate all your peas?

    --Tiassa

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  10. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    Dan

    you wrote:
    "Would a loving parent give his child a $40,000 car after he already wrecked the last three"

    I'd have to say probably not.....however lets put it in the TRUE context:

    Would a loving parent give his child a $40,000 car after he already wrecked the last three....because that "loving" parent sabotaged all the cars and then blamed the accidents on the child.

    Would the child want another gift of that kind???

    Now Loone:

    you wrote:
    "Woe unto those that call that which is 'good' evil! And the evil thing good"

    I have read the bible, studied it etc etc had a full christain education and the conclusion I come to is that the evil is a product of your God so WOE unto you Loone....If your right and there is an almighty judgemental thing deciding your eternity I would LOVE to see you explain your devotion to the most corrupt human endevour in the history of humanity.
     
  11. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    462
    GOD is Supreme!

    The DevilDog needs a distemper shot

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    Boy he is way out in the woods somewhere!
     
  12. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

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    rambler:

    The loving parent sabotaged it? A more accurate representation of what the Bible describes is a brother sabotaged the ones before.

    You seem to have the idea that it's humanity against God. God wants you to do one thing and you want to do another, but since God is bigger He's going to throw you into some fire pit for eternity. The Bible never denies that people want to do other than what God wants. The ending solution that the Bible says God comes up with is that He salvages anyone who asks Him--even if you've done contrary to God all your life.
     
  13. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    509
    Dan

    I disagree, sticking to the family analogy we can say the brother's (or sister's) hand was the one who performed the sabotage but it would be the parent that put the sibling in a position where they KNEW they would sabotage it. I guess the analogy wear's a little thin at this point. I don't know what version of Genisis you've read but the one I'm familiar with, god created adam and eve in his image (I take that to mean perfect) and then put the one thing that could and ultimatley would corrupt them in their faces (and then further tempted them by making it taboo, he knew what saying no will result in)...but it doesn't stop there he also lets satan loiter in the garden of eden (would you let a low life criminal hang out with your kids?)...being god it/he/she/he-she

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    would KNOW what the outcome of this situation would be...so back to the analogy if the parent didn't teach the sibling that it is wrong to sabotage cars then it is the parent that is at fault merely saying don't do it has never got the message across to a child, they must be taught and they MUST be allowed to make a mistake...after all isn't that the most efficient way to learn . It seems to me like this god had all the power needed to avoid this massive fall from perfection and still it let it happen...to me that looks like it was an act with full intent. Hence God made it so.
     
  14. DEVILDOG Registered Senior Member

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    84
    Where shall I start?

    How can you talk of protection in the afterlife, when there is so much to protect here on Earth?

    Children are dying because of lack of food.
    Children are dying because of lack of medicines.
    Children are dying because of lack of shelter.
    CHILDREN ARE DYING, PERIOD.


    As I said before, how can anyone praise god when he ALLOWS children to suffer. What greater good is achieved in it?

    Sir Loone :

    How is it a mockery. It's not my fault that there is more proof in the world of his non-existance(according to how his attributes are listed in the bible) than of his existance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2001
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,390
    When I was twenty or so

    All of my parents' principles changed. Instead of, "You don't need dishonest people in your life," (the parental assumption being that my friends were dishonest), it became, "You have to make responsible choices." In other words, it doesn't matter if your employer is dishonest, kiss his ass.

    Maybe the parent (like God) should have taught what is apparently supposed to be the relevant lesson in the first place, instead of worrying about what the neighbors think when you play with a child they don't like.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  16. DEVILDOG Registered Senior Member

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    Re: GOD is Supreme!

    NOT THE WOODS, BUT THE BAYOU. THE ONLY GOD IN "THESE HERE PARTS" IS THE MIGHTY GATOR, FOR HE TRULY HAS THE POWER TO CHOOSE YOUR FATE.
     
  17. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    509
    DevilDog

    That maybe so...but only if you stand still. If it chases you for 10 meters (and its a decent sized croc) it will die of lactic acid poisoning.

    It also helps if you have some gatoraid handy

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    hear that Gatoraid...endoursments...send me money!!!!
     
  18. Raion Registered Member

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    Just some critical constructive critizism.
    Not meant to harm, but enough is enough.
    Yes, God knows what one is doing.
    He gave a person free will.
    Everyone will have to learn more.
    But really, if a poster makes a statement about God and Free Will, and comes up with all that logic:
    Why does the one that posted disprove him/her self by posting something that he/she had free will not to do?
    You already disproved yourself by posting with the first post.
    If you say you had no free will to look at what you are posting then I submit that you did have free will to decide not to post to prove your point when your action was disproving from the start.

    Please, but keep learning, everyone makes mistakes.
    Only the smart ones know and will admit it when it happens, otherwise the World may get really bad because of free will and do the nasty thing, all because of free will even with God knowing.
    God can not break his own rules, he is not stumped, but you may be at the moment.
    That will change.
    Have some faith that everyone has permission to change.
     
  19. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    2,235
    Please, please, please ...

    Raion ...

    Go to the beginning of this thread and read it all the way through and I think you'll find that almost every possible argument, pro or con, has been explored.

    Why go through it all again?

    Tamam Shud
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2001
  20. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

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    302
    Devildog:

    Yes they are, and babies are being murdered, and women are being raped, and a million other bad things are happening to innocent people all over the world.

    That's what you have when the devil rules the world.

    Yes, the Bible says that right now demons are ruling over the planet. If God takes them out, they take us out. The only way to get any of humanity away from being obliterated is to shield us. Yet the shield cannot get through from God's end, we have to reach for it.

    Rambler:
    Oh, really. Do <i>you</i> know what the outcome will be? The story isn't over yet.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    A short note

    Again we see questions of the scope of God's capability and authority. Or else that inextricable hostage-status is all part of His master plan.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  22. DEVILDOG Registered Senior Member

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    84
    As far as the belief in creationism, you're right enough is enough. Reread the first post, if god is omniscient, and omnipotent than we have no free will. Therefore your entire post proves that you missed the whole point of this thread.

    We have the free will to make these posts because there isn't a true god.


    First, You're saying that this is hell, correct. The bible says that the devil rules over all of hell, so that would make Earth hell.

    Secondly, I thought that he was supposed to be THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ..oops god(sorry lapse in judgement). If he cannot get this shield through to us with all his magnificient powers than how are we supposed to be able to reach it when he is said to be "stronger", for lack of a better word, than we are.

    Third, If he was to take out satan why would we be taken out. How do you know they would obliterate us after seeing their leader destroyed. God is said to have kicked him out of heaven, if this is the case he should easily be able to control him. Or do we go back to the statement that god allows the evil because he enjoys watching people suffer unjustly.

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  23. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    It is tough to argue against the truth.
    The only way for the theory of evolution to win is to suppress creationism.

    J. B. S. Haldane laid evolution to rest with Haldane's dilemma.
    And he's not even a Christian, as far as I know.

    So if your neighbour knows anything, or does anything, that limits you?

    You have the free will to make these posts because there is a God.
    If there were no God as creator, then you wouldn't be here.

    The Bible doesn't say that the devil rules hell.
    It says he is the god of this world.

    As for the shield thing, the shield is our faith.

    satan has little power.
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
    (1 Peter 5:8, KJV).

    All he has the power for, is looking for people he may devour.
    He can't just go around deceiving people; he has to look for people that are easily deceived.

    That was never the case, so there is nothing to go back to.

    The point is, God created good and evil and told us to do good and avoid evil.
    The penalty for evil is death, the reward for good is life.
    Since we couldn't do good and avoid evil, God decided to count us as being able to do that if we believed him.
    He sent Jesus to pay the penalty for our doing evil.
     

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