Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ElectricFetus, May 18, 2010.
Huh. Had no idea.
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Add in the fact the North Korea has active deathcamps that have killed more then a million of its people.
Since we don't 'often' meet north Koreans is not easy to tell that they are racist to the bone, it is encouraging to know that the ones that escape are quick to drop everything they learned: when your told all your life you live in a paradise and your starving to death and managed to run off into china for food and find out Chinese dogs (I mean the fucking pets!) get more food per day then you do, you will quickly forget everything you were ever told, probably because you will be to busy scarfing down the dog food to care if up is down or if the sky is blue or red.
This does beget the question of if a tree falls and no one can hear it: if there are no foreigners how racist can they be? Well in accounts from the previous book, even when a Communist Cuban dignitary drove through the country these people attacked and try to overturn the car, that as fucking racist they are! They saw a foreigner and OOOH GREAT LEADER KILL IT, KILL IT!
I would recommend the book "Nothing to Envy"
The stories are very interesting. These people have almost no clue what outside their world, just rumors and bribes, and the doubly brainwashed Pyongyang citizen is probably even secure from that, the countrymen outside the central capital city who have lived the hardest and who also can get away with a lot more all live by bribes and barter now and have some idea that they live in a physical hell from which there is a very slime and highly dangerous chance of escape. After 2000 escape rates rose to the thousands per year probably because of the development of effective but half hazard system of getting bribe money back into the country so that their families aren't sent to the death camps for their crime of escaping. In North Korea a family is punished for an individuals member's crimes, this is one reason why they are so careful in the north to not cause trouble, that and everyone there snitches worse then Austrians during nazi rule! You make one joke about the government that is heard through the wall by a neighbor and *bam* off to the death camps, of course with bribes these days the government's unspoken 'one strike you and your family are dead' policy has not been nearly as effective as it use to be.
Oh in that case he's a mix of Hitler AND Stalin.
But the racial aspect of Jewish is not jewish but rather sephardi,mizrahi,ashkeNAZI which would fall under which racial profile?
Im just saying that Jewish and Judaism isn't and cannot be considered a race and favor or unfavor for "jewish" related isues is NOT racism. I'ts something entirely different.
Add Mao in there as well.
I don't disagree, and their is a world for it "Antisemitism", but racism has become a blanket term for all this.
Generally speaking that will probably work. However one could imagine a state that is extremely racist but, due to accidents of geography and demographics, doesn't feel much need to explicitly concern itself in questions of race at an institutional level. One won't likely see many manifestations of even virulent racism (institutional or otherwise) in places where there isn't much meaningful interaction between different races.
I've also heard people differentiate between societies that are "racist" and those that are "racial" in these sorts of contexts, the idea presumably being to differentiate between places where there's overt racial injustice being carried out, from those where race plays a considerable (but not necessarily detrimental) role in society.
Interesting so in that case, North Korea would be racial?
If they discriminated against everyone else, then i'd see them as rascist. But it does seem more likely that they just stick with their own, rather than hate others.
Hadn't thought about that particular example much... But from what I understand, NK is pretty much overtly racist, even in the basic institutional sense mentioned by iceaura. That there aren't any minorities there to speak of makes it a curious example - the supposition by academics who study that society is that they've sort of erased all the classic Marxist class-solidarity from their Stalinist approach in favor of racial solidarity (the whole communist approach having lost its appeal a while back due to, on the one hand, the end of the Cold War and, on the other, the obvious failure of the NK state to live up to any of that stuff in the first place).
See here for a starting reference:
They could just have tight borders. It is a Communist nation afterall.
I read the book already, here is someone the says the books mearly a western pundit trying to fit western concepts to something he can't understand.
I find his perspective interesting, he seems to think westerns believe everyone must be racist like westerners are. He thinks North Korea is a result of "Classicism, Ethnocentrism and national pride" when all he not understanding is to westerns racism has become a blanket term for all of the above.
Although I do agree with him that Myers need to shut his fucking mouth about policies and predictions, Myers in the book never really says what we should do, only that what we have done does not work, I would assume the only sure way is invade and defeat north Korea like the Nazis, or else this could go on for many decades more.
It isn't communist, and more so no communist nation had borders this tight!
North Korea is Communist. That's why China supplied them during the war. It's also why they dislike us.
I dunno, the USSR didn't let anybody (as in there civillians) out. And barely anyone in.
yeah that also why there is no mention of communism at all in North Koreans sham of a constitution. The world is more then black and white and is more then stuck in time, things have changed: USSR fell, china is only communist in name now and north korea is not even that. China supports North Korea today because it does not want the USA getting any closer.
The USSR even Cuba has more fluid borders then North Korea, certainly have better economic ties and trade.
Okay let me rephrase that, North Korea is known as Communist.
500 years ago the world was known as being flat, heck 8 years ago it was known there was WMD in Iraq, what is your point?
What I am trying to say, is that no matter how Communist it acts, it's still a Communist country.
That like saying the USA is still a imperial country... oh wait never mind. If its does not quake like a duck or look like a duck its not a duck, it does matter if it was a duck once, now its something else, something undefinable.
How on earth this topic is on "Science and Society" section? Which part of it is scientific; racism or nations?
Race is geneology isn't it?
No it is not.
Separate names with a comma.