# Reality is mathematics / Mathematics is reality ?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Write4U, Nov 27, 2018.

1. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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So far, I have yet to see what you're talking about. You haven't shown any values in nature.

Of course it isn't. I have a brain in which I can generate numbers and values.

What's complicated - in fact, so far impossible - is to show one of them in nature.

It's time to move on. I've asked - what? - seven times? And seven times you have not been able to show one. This concept is dead.

3. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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It doesn't. The pattern evolved by natural selection of spirals as mathematical patterns formed by dynamic gravitational forces, as well an efficient energy collector/distributor, with maximum packing ability.
We can say that biology "settled" on this natural efficient pattern as the growth mechanism with most persistent survival rate. But the spiral pattern which creates the mathematical sequence can already be found in spiral galaxies as well in great abundance in organisms that employ photosynthesis and require efficient energy distribution throughout the organism.

The sequence belongs in the category of logical mathematical exponential functions.

Last edited: Jun 25, 2019

5. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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It doesn't, of course.

[ EDIT ] Write4U has beaten me to it. Good description

- except for the very last line, where he directly contradicts the very first line. (If the universe doesn't calculate pi, then the universe doesn't have a "function" to calculate it with.)

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7. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Shown me the value of a dollar bill. What are you talking about ? Values are both visible and invisible attributes of a thing.
The single term defining the nature of invisible values is the term "potential" (that (value) which may become reality)
And the universe has no brain and generated you by what process? Can you show me an example of the process that generated your existence? Chaos?

p.s. Values are the inherent qualities (excellence) of a thing. OTOH, Numbers are not generated, they are arbitrarily chosen symbols to represent a natural relative quantity of a thing.

Things do have values relative to each other, no? And I believe we can show that....

Science.

And if you disagree with that you have just voiced your complete disagreement with QM and GR in the past few pages.

8. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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It doesn't calculate, it just functions the way it must, as per natural deterministic imperatives, which happen to be mathematical in essence.
The emergent functional chronology was symbolized and codified by Fibonacci. He did not invent the function, he identified it in nature and showed us how it works logically.

9. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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A dollar bill has a 'one' on it. Lots of human-made things have values.

Great. Show me a visible value of a natural thing.

That's nine times now.

10. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Can either show a photo of TIME or a photo of a machine which detects TIME?

If I am not mistaken both claim it's existence

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11. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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I don't. My perpective is that time emerges along with change. One is dependent on the other, as per the Logical law of "Necessity and Sufficiency".

Need more time?....here it is....exactly as much as you need to complete your change.....

12. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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I looked where you indicated

....

Couldn't find any but thanks for trying

13. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Just occurred to me. Time is a commonly shared Temporal denominator of all 3 Spatial dimensions. It does not exist as a separate dimension but as a shared dimension of spacial geometry. Hence, spacetime = (L + t) (W + t) (D + t)

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14. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Will ponder that

Don't think it makes TIME exist though

Perhaps more akin to saying AGE occurs for all three dimensions

Thanks

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15. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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In what direction were you looking, the future?
....
Couldn't find any but thanks for trying

[/QUOTE] Yet it was available when you needed it.

However, time may not be available for objects changing at a rate greater than "c".

Perhaps that is the limit imposed by quantum change. Any change occurring faster that "c" are unable to perform a full quantum change from one state into another and the event does not unfold into a new physical reality.

Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
16. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Think you clutching at strawmen here

17. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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One visible value of water is wetness.
One invisible value is electricity flowing over the surface of an electric cable.
One invisible but demonstrable value is air pressure in a balloon.

18. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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So, those are not values.

Here's my suggestion: whenever you take a word and mangle its meaning to suit your narrative, take credit for it:

One visible Write4Uvalue of water is wetness.
One invisible Write4Uvalue is electricity flowing over the surface of an electric cable.
One invisible but demonstrable Write4Uvalue is air pressure in a balloon.

Now everyone's happy. You are making your statement, and the rest of us know that you are not talking about the what rest of the world calls a value.

19. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Da da da dum dum

Da da da dum dum

Theme music for upcoming movie

Dueling Definitions

20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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“When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.”
― Kahlil Gibran

That's when you know you truly valued a thing.

21. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Looks like the issue is settled. Now everyone seems to understand what I am talking about......