Oh, and yes I am indeed a christian. But I do not participate in organized religion...in fact I abhor organized religion...in a general sense. I wish I didn't, but I just can't help it. As I very apparently do not share beliefs with these people who are involved in organized "christianity", and I'm using that term very loosely, only because "they" do..."they" being those who profess to be christians. But the fact is that actions speak louder than words. And the behavior that I witness many, many times says that the vast majority of these peoplw wouldn't know Jesus if he slapped them upside the head. Which means that they do not in fact believe their own doctrine. The fact is that people take Jesus' name in vain a lot...people who are involved in organized religion. They use him to suit their own needs...needs of the flesh. Which is in fact breaking a commandment. It cracks me up to think that so many people want to believe that taking the lord's name in vain means using it as an explitive. Lmao...oh, the simple minds...yea, ignorance is bliss isn't it? Well, whatever justifies their sin I suppose. So anyway, taking his name in vain like this causes them to in turn witness falsely to him...which indeed is breaking another commandment. In general, organized religion is commonly used as nothing more than a cheap and dirty subsitute for the real thing. The real thing being born again. Which means that you have a personal relationship with god through christ and via the holy spirit which dwells inside of you. It's a telepathic communication...a spiritual interaction...but indeed, a real relationship. More real, in fact, than any relationship with another human, simply because of the honestly and comprehension of it...it's all encompassing nature. So here's the deal...now you tell me what's what. I have a personal relationship with god. He talks to me...telepathically. Leads me and guides me through my life using real circumstances and experiences. He teaches me this way...through real experience in my life, and through conversation and revelation regarding these experiences. I don't go to church...and I do not learn these things from the Bible. And to my knowledge, there are very few people, relatively, who are born again, and those people do not have a formal organization. As already stated, organized christianity in no way is an organization of born again people...some are...but most are unfortunately not. So tell me then...am I religious? According to your own definition.
Last I'm saying on this in this thread. This is not the thread for this discussion. Alpha's description of atheism seems good. I don't know about this strong vs. weak stuff. But, why not? Good a description as any. The thing is that I have never been indoctrinated into atheism. It's something that I came to myself. And it's not even a 'thing' that I've come to it. It's absence of the 'thing' that I've moved away from, 'religion', 'god'. I do not feel like I belong to a group. I do not see another atheist on the street and say "yo, wassup bro? God is dead!" And give the secret atheist handshake. We share only one thing in common. Our belief (yes, belief, but belief religion does not make, and beware semantics anyway. Belief in no god/lack of belief in a god. blah.) that there is no god. The details of what this means to us personally is most likely completely and extravagantly different. Religion as opposed to spirtualism based on the bible. Well, it's true that one can follow the bible without joining a particular religion, but you still have to follow the same precepts. Regardless of your personal decisions in the matter, you will still follow the same basic ideals that these religions you seemingly despise do. The concepts are in the bible. Unless you move away from the bible, you are a christian. Religion. No getting away from it. The thing is, that most religions have lessened the rules of the bible. They pretty much ignore the stuff in the beginning. And concentrate on the latter stuff. So, if you don't belong to a church, just follow the bible. Do you follow leviticus? Deuteronomy? Are you obeying the laws of god? Or do you pick and choose just like the other churches? You personally? I'd say from what I've read of you and how you describe yourself, you are a combination of three things (more actually, but I'll limit myself here.) First, you are religious because you follow the bible. You are a heretic because you seek to follow it outside of doctrine. You are a touch crazy because of your personal relationship with god. I wonder if it's a physical abnormality of the brain or emotional trauma? Something that can be cured or if its permanent and untreatable? That's it. No more on this subject (for me). This thread is not about what religion and atheism is. It's about what religion members of the forum belong to.
Hey invert...god does exist...I know him. According to medical science...doctors, mri's...I am completely healthy. And according to psychiatric and social definitions...I am completely sane. Except for this ONE thing...that they can't explain. It just twists their little minds. Why? Because they so desperately want to believe that there is no god. And so desperately want to believe that even if there is one, that we would never be expected to actually have a relationship with him or listen to his voice or allow him to counsel us in our everyday life. That's too scary for the average human apparently...way too consequential, huh? Boo! God is love.
Get it through your head, atheism is not a religion by definition. If you contest that then you don't get the definition. A-theism: without theism; without religion/belief in God(s). That doesn't make it a religion. You can teach your kids morality, that doesn't make it a religion. You can teach your kids the current theories of science, that doesn't make it a religion. Religion is a specific type of belief system, of which atheism is not. It is a distinction I have seen made that brings clarity. There are atheists who positively believe there is no God, and there are atheists who simply do not believe in God (simple lack of belief). The distinction is often referred to as strong and weak, or positive and negative. I prefer strong vs weak as it seems more accurate, and seems weird to think of mere absence of belief as "negative." Uh huh. Is anyone completely sane? Would you agree that you cannot hold inconsistent beliefs and still be sane? What does desperation have to do with it? Nothing. I've proven God doesn't exist, have a look at the "is atheism the answer?" thread.
I ticked Christian, because that's how I was raised - but I haven't been to church since last Christmas Eve. Does it count if you make like the song Walking in Memphis: ...She said, "Tell me, are you a Christian, child?" and I said "Mam, I am tonight!"
Starthane, No, that doesn't count. See what I mean? Most people who go to church are using it for nothing more than a social gathering place. You may as well spend your evening in a country club, or a dinner theater, or a bar for that matter. After all, you would end up doing less damage, in that at least you wouldn't be slapping Jesus' name all over your relatively meaningless activity. Being born again isn't something you do or somewhere you go once or twice a year, or once or twice a week. It's a state of existance 24/7. And it doesn't have anything to do with a building or a man or a book or a song. I feel bad ripping on organized religion like I do. It's hard for me to reconcile how I feel about it all. I say this because I know that some people who are involved are born again and have a relationship with christ. I can tell. The holy spirit gives you the gift of discernment and I can tell when someone knows him or not. I personally have greatly benefited from the work of some gifted preachers in my life. I have watched them on TBN, and have donated money to the station as well, in gratitude for the work that they have done in spreading the gospel. But just as I've seen some born again preachers on there, I've seen some who aren't. And just because someone's born again, doesn't mean that they are perfect or even close to it. That's why it's all about YOU personally having a relationship with christ...it's all about the individual and your personal journey with him. I guess what it all comes down to is this. Like anything else in this world, there is good and bad that can come from anything...depending on the intent behind the use of it, or conception of it. There is so much power in the name of Jesus Christ. And so given that power...if his name is used with good intent, the results are really good. But if the name is used with bad intent, the results are really bad. Professing the truth in his name...witnessing and testifying to his power in truth and in love brings salvation and healing and growth and life. But taking his name in vain and witnessing falsely is the most destructive thing a person could ever do...it is murderous. And within organized religion, there are both of these things going on. It's just that from my personal perspective, I have to say that I've seen more of the latter than the former. And that's a damn shame. And it's time for a revolution.
Ok Alpha, I know God. I have a personal relationship with Him. And I am not speaking metaphorically, but literally. There, that was easy. We have had hours long conversations....he has taught me so many things I wouldn't even know where to begin listing them...he has completely changed me and my life in the best ways...ways that I wouldn't have even imagined were possible...he has answered every single one of my prayers...he has even yelled at me...twice...not being mean, just trying to get my attention...and it did startle me...and he also has a great sense of humor too...which is very comforting to know...he's laughed at me, and I at him. And he loves me as he does everyone...yes you too...and I've felt that love...and it has changed my life...it changes everything...it IS everything. To seek it and find it is the meaning of life....you find the meaning of your life...and it's blowing my mind.
Have you thought of founding a cult (maybe you already have one)? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! People in direct communication with God are prophets, surely. Does God not want you to spread His word , if he reveals it clearly to your mind? I mean, if you know God so intimately and unequivocally, you're on the same level as Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Solomon, Elijah and St. John the Baptist.
Starthane, Being born again is what Jesus preached. He preached it to Nicodemus...remember...the "church person"? Cause Nic was all about the "rules" and the judgement, and the hypocracy, like the religious people still are today. I wonder all the time how it is that these modern day pharisees can read scriptures like that...about how screwed up organized religion was back then, and not realize that they are perpetuating the very same thing today...and for the same reasons. Dude, EVERYONE in the bible heard from god. People were hearing god's voice all over the place...not just the prophets. And people do today as well. I'm certainly not special...it happens all the time. It happens even if you're not born again. You know what people call your conscious? Well, they only call it that to avoid the realization that god is communicating with them. Since this miracle has happened to me, I have seen god communicate to me through people who have absolutely no idea what's going on and who are not born again. God uses people for his purpose regardless of what their beliefs are or what their will is...whatever it is...he can work around it. When you're born again...your conscious...that little voice...it gets bigger...and louder...and you hear from it more often. And that is only because you want to. It's a voluntary, willful thing that you pray for. You have to seek, then you find. You have to knock, and then the door will be open. He doesn't come uninvited. And when you're born again, it's like you get a new pair of eyes and ears...and you see and hear everything differently...everything has new meaning...even the same old thing. Its because of the insight of the holy spirit...its council. Haven't you ever heard people talk about hearing from god before????? It happens all the time. Why in the hell would I found a cult? I'm not in this to have followers or power or an organization. That's what I just said that I detest remember? And that's your first suggestion? No. What I wish is that everyone could know what I know. That everyone could know god and his love like I do. And guess what? Everyone can. But it's not up to me...it's up to the individual. Are you a seeker? Or not. Do you want the truth? Or not. It's up to you. The only thing that stands in a persons way in having a personal relationship with god is that person's will. Whether or not they sincerely desire to know the truth about god. And that's it.
Lori, if the voice of God you claim to hear is what everyone else calls their conscience (those who have one, anyway), then perhaps God is simply an aspect of our psychology, and not a separate, omniscient conscious being in His own right? You'll note the difference in spelling. Our conscience is a very fine thing, showing that human nature has an inherent morality about it. I suppose we could have a whole separate debate on whether the conscience is genetically programmed somehow, or entirely derived from learned social values. I don't mean to offend anyone. But as others have said, it may be that Man makes God in his image rather than the other way around.
He/It (God) would reflect only the best aspects of human nature, as an ideal to which we could all aspire. That's why He/It is balanced by the Devil, who embodies the dark side of our psyche. Humans can probably never attain perfection, but we can imagine it.
I answered "Spiritual" cuz it was the closest thing to "Pantheism". I was atheist, and I guess I technically am still . . . at least in the Christian sense. There are an awful lot of atheists up in herre. I guess atheism dominates the Internet. WE RULE! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Naninani Booboo! Hehe!
Hmm . . . I guess I was wrong. Google gives back 3,890,000 results for "christianity", but only 480,000 for "atheism" and 68,600 for "pantheism". Hehe.
