Respect is a modern luxury

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by gendanken, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    A porcine expectation among gluttons.

    I will elaborate on my ideas concerning not just murder but the ghostly omnipotence of its influence over a killer’s life as I feel meaning was lost in translation in the first thread.
    Some thought the thread a case of rebellious advocacy for aggression.
    Others thought it an ignorant citation of scripture when I happened to call modern men Nephalim.

    Cast your eyes on your history, reader, and see everywhere a man spilling his blood to the indifference of his neighbor- terror rained down from the Steppes and a Teuton would wake in the morning to find a quarter of his village bludgeoned before being pushed across the Danube by Huns. Bubonic plague brought catastrophe but it further illustrated this apathy to death that was there at the founding of Babylon and Persia and Sparta and Rome and countless other city states and empires built on blood. Given a corpse on the street, a man would pick its pockets for bread and having found none move on to the next one since his neighbor’s home was kept guarded against him, keeping him from its cupboards and its women. Man shuns his genetic sexual aggressions as an opportunity cost he pays to live in his hive- who was it that said it much better than I?

    “Aggressiveness was not created by property, “ writes Freud about us, the discontented, “ It reigned almost without limit in primitive times, when property was still very scanty, and it already shows itself in the nursery…..”

    Now cast your eye to the softened world out your window, where on every street corner a smiling face will greet a pedestrian with halfhearted gestures and inquiries without as much caring for a response. There he is as indifferent as always, a spiteful, calculating lycanthrope in a Polo shirt forced into civility for man now fears Mankind in the name of Respect- an idea has crawled out from the battlefields and set up a network broadcasting a message of remorse, a message of guilt, a message of love and humanity held against us like a noose.
    A man will now think twice about mishandling a prostitute- this nameless vagabond only recognizable as a woman by its hair and organs forgotten by her country and her family and left to feed off the street’s garbage- this man knows she can destroy him in life if he were to take hers.

    Strangle her and he strangles himself when the law rises to make her a god because she is an individual! A human life! not just some animal one can kill without thinking! “You’re a monster. The bench sentences you to death, and may the Lord have mercy on your soul” uttered to our killer during trial by the magistrate- redemption for a prostitute who’s name it can’t even spell correctly.
    This useless, bloodsucking tumor who’s thrown her life away is knighted in death by virtue of her life being taken in such indecent lack of regard.
    We have become angel-men able to drive Dahmer insane for his instincts; a killer walks around with his sanity ransomed by the guilt this softened world imposes upon him now that its made human life invaluable- all human life invaluable.
    Its a mutilation of the worst order to find vermin can now wield an omnipotence in vengeance that was once only possible among gods and dealt by them creatively.
    Again, respect is a luxury based on modern presumptions- the Negro was once a mule kept in the stable but now he is feared. So is the maid.
    This is what I mean by the omnipotence of murder, homicide is suicide now that Nephalim walk the earth again.

    Vital in this, to those that can hear, is to remember always that loyalty to self is at a premium- it is not in our nature, man's nature, to recognize others at the expense of self and should that nature ever change never will it come at the hands of authority.
    You owe allegiance to none one, save those of one's choosing.
    You owe nothing- this is debtor mentality fit for prostitutes.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2004
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  3. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    I have been thinking about this, Gendanken.

    It seems that apart from conscience (which we all have to some degree or another, even though I fear you're going to deny this) the main reason keeping us from going on killing sprees and mutilating those who oppose us (who by the way are generally removed from conscience if we demonize them sufficiently) is consequence. You've said as much with your innuendo of the prostitute rising from her grave to kill her killer.

    Now, there are those who kill regardless. Why? Well, there are more than one type of killer in the world, of course. More types than I could possibly begin to relate in this thread. Probably as many types as there are killers. But, I think I can break down several of them.

    First, we have the emotional killer. The temporary insanity defense. Emotions got the better of him/her and murder most foul was the result. We can conclude that during the act, consequences were the farthest thing from this killer's mind. And, likely conscience had little part to play because rage tends to demonize.

    Second, we have the organized killer. One who kills for fun and profit. Sometimes legally, as in the soldier and policeman, sometimes illegally, as in the contract killer. The first type doesn't have to fear legal consequences. Although he does have to reckon with moralistic consequences. Many vets came home from Vietnam without ever leaving the memories of those burned children behind. And, they also have to fear reprisal. They can be killed in their job by those they are trying to kill, but this likely adds to the joy of it. Don't you think?

    The contract killer would have to fear consequences. He would have to be good enough to avoid consequences. Moral issues likely don't plague him or he wouldn't have gone into the line of work. Physical dangers would be a consequence but not as much as the soldier. For contract killers are more like snipers. They don't often get close and visceral.

    Next, we have the thrill killer. Generally youths that just don't give a shit. They have no consideration of consequences because it just doesn't matter. Morals are generally far from their mind as well. Although they might change their mind once the deed is done. They might just find that they do care after all. It's happened before. Physical consequences? They usually pick defenseless targets. They are cowards usually and don't want a struggle. They seek out easy targets. Easy kills. Crushing a kittens head with your boot type of thing.

    Next, we have the sexually deviated serial killer. Most of the big name killers have been this type. Several subtypes involved of course. Which particular sexual deviation do these poor souls suffer from. How do they cover it up? How do they transfer sex to violence? These people are generally leery of their violent fantasies. Holding them at bay for years. Until finally, they can do so no more. They make their first kill. Then, often they'll stop. Guilt will run rampant. Perhaps even religion plays a part in their deviation. But, the fantasies spiral out of control. These people begin to kill. More and more. Becoming pawns to their fantasies. Tools of their deviations. Many times, not only do they end up not fearing consequences, they desire consequences. They leave clues behind. They want to be caught. They want to be burned for their actions. Moral punishment? Some yes. Some no. Physical danger? Some yes. Some no.

    Hmm. Well, this is getting a bit long. I'm gonna stop here. There's four types of killer. Each with their own particular blend of motivations. Their own particular reasons for killing. Their own particular reasons for not killing.

    Consequence plays a part in all of them. The most common type of murder today is the thrill killing. The respect killing of the youth culture. The just don't give a fuck feeling that permeates us. I think that this might very well arise as a backlash against this heavy handed morality that is laid upon us. This ultimate sanctity of human life that is pushed upon us. Not necessarily the sanctity itself, but the hypocrisy of it.

    It's perfectly legitimate to say that no one should ever be murdered, that no one should be allowed to commit suicide, that every murderer must be punished, that human life is so fucking valuable, yadda yadda. Yet, at the same time it very clear that these same people who say this have no respect for human life. It's control they're after. Control of life and death. If they really respected life, then that illiterate little girl wouldn't have to sell her ass on the street for crack. Her baby wouldn't have to die in a dumpster. People wouldn't have to sell their fucking souls for health care. We wouldn't be in a foreign country killing them while claiming that our lives are so fucking precious that they deserve whatever they get.

    It's hypocrisy that's the issue.

    And it's transparent hypocrisy. Even the braindead children of our age can see it. They can sense it in their bones. I wonder, is the transparency intentional?

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    Edit: Hmm. Just had a thought. It's not that we reason out the hypocrisy. It is seen in the eyes of most of our 'respected' elders. It is seen from our parents who say that it's so terrible that some guy is out killing prostitutes. But then will look at a living prostitute as a diseased scumbag worthy of nothing less than death. It is all around us and is picked up by emotional and societal cues. Hypocrisy. A variance between logic and emotion perhaps? Between left and right brains? Or is this left/right device even needed? Doublethink in action. Catch the killer. Fuck the whore.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2004
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  5. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    Science, medicine. Being able to prevent death, heal wounds. One can nowadays always count that there *should* be a doctor who can help. -- All this brought death far far away from us, and made it a stranger, something we shun and fear.

    ... and (how does that proverb go?) familiarity breeds contempt.

    There are too many people living in the same territory. The population density is much bigger than several thousand years ago. -- Yet the feeling for a fellow tribesman remained, we feel we ought to feel some closeness to our neighbour. And in the times of old tribes, this was the preferred way to treat a neighbour. Back then, it made sense.

    But nowadays, the feeling diluted, as we are supposed to have it for thousands of people! Something, that was meant for but a hundred, if not less. The human ability to love, as well as to hate, is limited by the 24 hours that are in a day, and other natural limitations of the human mind and body.

    Modern life teaches us that we aren't supposed to acknowledge these natural limitations. And that they are bad.

    This is where human progress lead to.

    The trickery of human rights:
    I keep noticing that people DO NOT defend themselves. Just look at how violence is often portrayed in films: A man, not even carrying a gun or a knife, attacks a woman -- and what does she do? Does she even try to defend herself, does she at least try to scratch him, kick him? No!! She begs him not to do her harm, curls up, and awaits the end.

    Apparently, she is acting on her "right to live" and thinking that others should respect her right to live. And this is why she feels that if she should defend herself, she would actualy attack the one who is supposed to respect her right to live -- and thereby undermine her own right to be respected in her right to live!

    We are taught not to exercise our strength, as this would eventually be a violation of human rights. However, this lesson spreads on all fields of life, even when it comes to self-defence.

    It tells us to recognize others at the expense of self.

    Re-establishing the tribe.

    He who thinks he owes nothing, *is* noting.
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  7. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    And the scientific process, despite its merits, has left behind a trail of weak, presumptions cowards.
    Its bred a civilized world of, to use Freud's words, Prosthetic Gods.

    Weren't inequities simple once? Steal and get a hand lopped off.
    Fornicate, lose thy penis.
    We have corrupted from the simple act of retribution to the prolonged farce of the American penal system.
    Didn't we gather around the guillotine once to watch a royal executed?
    Didn't we sing at the gallows?
    Didn't we pass by an execution once as gypsyes selling elixirs for a guinea while death was imminent right behind us?
    Now its become a terrifying monster they blurr out on television.
    I liken death to to the genital in how concealment arouses intrigue and desire.

    This is why to the Muslim death is nothing, compared to the pampered Christian who trembles at a paper cut.

    Right on.
    Human relations have gone from loyalty to obligation.
    THe comforts of brother have been exhange for the artifice of acquaintance and look how easy the thinking mind is annoyed with their cheerful presence.

    Each and every prole is spread wide and way thin that he can only give the 25% of himself left over since all the rest has been prostituted.
    They love diluted.
    Hate diluted.
    Think, feel, and speak diluted.

    Lovely little shithole.

    Even better- we've beat civility into the genes.
    Grab a human baby and coyote pup and stick them both out in the middle of the Kalahari. The coyote leaps on its tiny paws and crawls to safety while this human genius lays there doing squat.

    Grahhhahahhaha..God, we're fucked.
    A tribe is a small, healthy comfort. Comprised of either one, two, or many.
    I long for tribes.

    He who thinks he owes, owns nothing.
    Take that to your grave.
    The higher mind owes shit.

    You've forgotten the philsophical killer.
  8. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    I've forgotten many killers. Space is limited, you realize.

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  9. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    But I'm not particularly concerned with types of serial killers.

    You for example, how simple I would find it to shoot through the skull for your killing of cats. Enchantment with the macabre would have little to do with it, it'd be done in sheer anger.
    Morality, bias, truth- all die in the face of aggression.
    And we all have it.
  10. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Meh. Neither here nor there.

    The thing I was going on about with the type of killer was each types regard of consequences. Consequence seems to be at the heart of this matter of respect. Do you disagree?

    Each of the types kills and doesn't kill for various reasons. It all led to the final paragraphs on the hypocrisy of respect.

    Edit: Ok. You brought it up. I bet this will really gets Rosa's goat, but fuck it.

    The killing of cats. When I was a younger man, a stupid teenager, I and some of my friends used to drive around all night long getting shitfaced drunk. We lived in a small rural community where nothing was going on. We were the action of the town. And that action was boring. So, one of the things we got a minor thrill from was cat-hunting. We didn't go track them down and kill them by hand or anything, but when one crossed the path of the vehicle. Squeeze the gas. Dead cat. Some fun, huh? Stupid, cruel, and pointless. What else is new for a teenager in the US? HMM?

    Also, my grandmother was a cat-lady. She had over a hundred cats in her care. These cats were nothing but fucking parasites. Breeding like rabbits and taking over the place. My grandmother was too kindhearted to do anything about it. So, at my family's behest, I and several other of my relatives went to her place while she was gone and removed several of the cats from her care. We had to kill them. If we just relocated them, they'd be back the next day. This killing of cats I have no qualms about. I do feel tinges of guilt over the senseless acts of drunken driving. But removing this parasites was sheer economics. I have NO guilt over this.

    If you don't like it. Screw ya. We all have moral decisions to make.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2004
  11. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Yes and no.
    Yes, for the calculating killer. All his actions are shaped by the fear invoked by repurcussions. Hence, the founnding of Hammurabi's Code.

    No, for those inclined to the macabre. His fellow men he sees as Gods since man's death has been concealed from him. In his wanting to feel their blood, look inside, peel their skin and wear it- in that, he respects.
    Ed Gein was a respectful killer and consequence was the last thing at the heart of his respect.
  12. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Translation: I was a bloody redneck. Twang!

    And watching you die a slow death in my Brazen Bull is the most moral one among them, asshole.
  13. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    That's why I tried to highlight several types of killer. Several mixtures of fear of consequence, fear of reprisal, and also fear of guilt. Three factors that play a part in this respect of the modern age.
  14. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Don't have to be a redneck to be a stupid cruel teenager. Do I regret my actions? Yes, somewhat. I can picture now someone going out to find their beloved cat half-dead in the street with it's rear half smashed. It's front half yowling. But, as I've said so often that was someone else. I am a different person than that fucking idiot.

    For removing parasites from my grandmother's body you'd murder me. Fine. As I say, we have moral decisions to make. You make yours, I'll make mine.

    I have no regrets over what I did.

    You mention (elsewhere) that there are organizations that could deal with it. In my home town there are no such organizations. My home town is a tiny little fleabitten piece of shit on the side of the road. No one would do anything. We had to do it ourselves. HAD TO!
  15. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Much as I love the little creeps:

    ...this image was funny. You did that on purpose.
    *yowl* fart *yowl* fart* yowl*

    In a heartbeat.
    Your moral decision betrays itself with vocabulary. Your use of the word 'parasite' is a qualifier- the use of it is what makes your decision.
    To the Southern White in Georgia a nigger was a vile, filthy, roach every time he uttered the word 'nigger'
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2004
  16. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    You bitch. How dare you bring humor into this? I saw no humor in it until you brought in the fart joke. Now I can only see that putrifying cat from That's My Bush (which you've probably never seen.) Rowr.

    In the situation, they were parasites. They contributed nothing to the relationship. Some few she'd take under her wing and raise them tame. The rest were all wild, evil things. They didn't hunt mice. They didn't do squat but hang out waiting for handouts. And she was more than happy to give them everything she had. She would rather feed them than feed herself.

    Ok, maybe I have bolstered my decision to follow this course with my choice of words. So what? We do what we must do. Those cats had to go. If they needed to be demonized in order to escape the pangs of conscience then so be it.
  17. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    Yep, gendankens right, I agree with her.
    Ofcourse, I would agree with her, because I've said all this shit a thousand times before and now she comes out with a fucking lightbulb on her head like "I just noticed"... fuck you gendanken, fuck you to hell.

    Actually, I just want to insult gendanken before she insults me.
    I have said all this before, but more angrily, and I focussed more on how people complain about shit like "needing closure for their dead son" like its their god given right to recieve "closure". That just really pisses me off. Humans have become so spoilt and obnoxious. I'd like to give them "closure" by sending them a video of me cooking their son alive in an oven on low heat.

    Like gendanken will now mock me in some way, its not right. She should be a little quiet mouse in the corner, hoping I don't beat her and humiliate her in front of my friends again. Her clan should hand her over in exchange for my clan not kicking their asses and then we should be able to feast on gendankens sweet flesh. But no, instead she will type something offensive towards me and despite my physical superiority I will just have to sit here like a jackass, read it and move on.
    Even on the street she could mock me, and if I punch her in her smart mouth humanity as 1 unified clan will come crashing down upon me.

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  18. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    One who breeds parasites is the bigger parasite.
    Pardon, but your grandmother was an expendible leech as well.

    I would never even think of insulting you.
    I'm sugar and spice and everything nice and respect all my fellow human's right to their dignity.

    Those families bawling their eyes out over their little princess getting hacked to bits "like an animal", as if human death is a massacre? I respect their selfish inanity!

    (you may have 'said all this' my dear, but more childishly)
  19. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Mean-ass bitch. You get all bent out of shape over cats being killed and here you are insinuating that it should have been my grandmother who should have been taken out to be shot?

    I'll let it go, because, in a way you're right. She did create her own problems. She did breed these parasites. She should have known better, but they get to her psychologically. It's a common occurence in the old. These cat-ladies.

    But, unlike the cats, she did have something to offer. She was a loving woman who was always willing and able to babysit any of her grandchildren. She always had time for us. Always had an ear for whatever marvelous thing we had thought of or learned (ok, most of my family were retards, but I learned things upon occasion.

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    ) In fact, when I was real young she used to read to me. I credit her reading to me as the spark of imagination that led me to an intelligent mode of living. Not the sole spark, but certainly led me along the path.

    She gave. The cats took. When she died, it was a loss to the family. Actually, I take that back. When she died she had already been dead for years (Alzheimer's). But, when she sunk into Alzheimer's, that was a loss for our family. A tremendous loss.
  20. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

    Write this out in all caps next time so, you know, it could, like, hurt more.
  21. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    You realize that was sarcasm? I hope? I did after all say that you were right in a way, right afterwards. Oy.

    And, what do you expect after calling my grandma an expendable leech? That I'd call you sweet and rosy? Sheesh.
  22. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    A loss? it was probably a much greater loss to the kittens waiting in some burrow when you ran over their mother, don't you think?
    Your grandmother should have been eaten a long time before she decayed away the way she did. You're incredibly lucky you got to spend such an unnatural amount of time with her. You saw her weak and feeble, yet STILL living comfortably, rather than torn to shreds by jackals. Thats insanely fortunate. She wasn't even hungry. When her teeth fell out her food was softened instead of the traditional "she starved to death". What did you and her do to recieve these unearthly priveledges? Are you Gods?
    And now you expect condolensces for this? We should give you a hug because your grandmother lived one of the most comfortable lives in the history of the universe and you witnessed it eventually peacefully come to an end long after it rightfully should have?
    Thats crazy, pelicans and whales and bison everywhere are outraged by your audacity.

    Without a doubt, but who are you? My editor?
  23. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Possibly. But, those kittens might very well have been eaten alive by that very same mother. It happens as I'm sure you're aware. Or maybe a wandering Tom. Or god knows what. Cat's that roam the streets are less likely to live long lives than those confined to the house. This is a known fact. But, anyway, I've already said I felt guilt over those stupid actions. No need to fucking rub it in, Doc Natic.

    Humans have adapted long ago for their elderly to continue living to help raise the young. It happened while we were still basically animals. Of course, the elderly then were 40 years old or whatever, but the point stands. My grandmother was a productive citizen most of her life. She worked practically every day of her life for most of her life. In her later years, she was supported by her family and she in turn supported her family. She raised her grandchildren. This is the contract that we have with the elderly. The only thing about my grandmother's life that I regret are the Alzheimer's years. I'd rather she was allowed to die when it started to get to that point. But, that's not the way it works, is it? Hence this thread.

    You know, my mother works in a nursing home. She says that lots of times old people will reach a point where they just stop eating. I figured they'd force feed them or feed them through an IV or something. Turns out they let them waste away. That's heartening.

    When did I ever ask for fucking condolences, Dr Lou? You must be taking your own medications because I never asked for sympathy. Why the hell would I want sympathy from some nameless text on a goddamn internet forum for my grandmother's demise? She died several years ago. I've had all the condolences I need. You're going off on some tangent here, bud. All I did was explain that my grandma was valuable to her family. And she was. For the reasons I've given and more. If you can't accept those reasons, then I don't really give a shit. She's cold and dead and it don't make a shit anymore.

    Mmmm. Buffalo burger... *drool*

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