What is your definition of "attack?" Does that mean that if someone creates a depiction of Muhammad, Muslims consider that an "attack?"
But is it not preferable not to war on others? To live in peace? If there has never been a war without violence, why does it need to be restated in the Quran? Surely others already know this salient fact. It sounds more to me like a coding of an approved behaviour. It's one of the three choices in Sura 9 offered to the unbeliever. So, certes, it has actually been interpreted in exactly that way.
So you think it is unnecessary to have rules of behaviour? If you have a community without rules about what is allowed and what is not, it will be more peaceful? Law is conducive to crime? Which unbeliever? What kind of unbeliever is specifically addressed in the first and seventh verse of Sura 9?
I think "turn the other cheek" preferable to "if they oppress you, kill or convert or oppress them". The one restrains, the other permits. This is the problem; the definitions look mushy.
thats what u feel and its your opinion,noting to discuss . i usually discuss the quran and not poor uneducated sect muslims actions. its amazing you dont know what attack mean. the arabic word used here is Qatlokum,wich is translated as attack Qatlokum mean : they fought you (p)/they killed you/fought you/killed you (p) The word Qatl mean : = Kill = Bring low = Subdue = Fight = Attack = Slay = Strike where this aya was revealed,in a WAR,it mean when they attack u to kill you. To attack Muhammed with words is not possible,that only describe the opponents ignorance nothing more. these rules is ment for WAR,not rules of a debate. If u read the title of this thread,its called : RULES OF WAR IN ISLAM.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! do you understand the meanin of standard of peace and attack now or do i need to get my oxford dictionary?
Qatl actually means to kill with premeditation. So it should read: if they come with the intention to kill you.
if other people knew the rules of war,then none would have been tortured like in many other wars. Quran is stating a permanent value,its not depending on what people know,but on those people who dont know. and its not depending og people who know,but dont follow,but for those who need to follow these rules nomatter how angry he is. whos others? Israel used new weapon wich none know the long term damage of,do you mean they are followin these rules?because they already know? did all the christians follwed such rules when they were fighting?romans,persians,,did they all know that before,so they followed such rules?
dear sir The surah 9. At-Taubah - The Repentance first and 7 aya : Humanity must abstain from associating others with God — the One True God. This injunction applies to matters of worship, obedience and Law-giving. Ascribing partners to God does not upset Him. He is too High and Glorious to feel offended. Idolatry in any form only harms us by dragging down the honor granted to humans by the Sublime Creator. And it divides mankind into castes and sects. The idolaters, and others who associate gods besides the One True God, are the believers’ brothers and sisters once they embrace the Truth. And eventually humankind will become one community. 9.1 Actual meaning (O You who have attained belief! The treaties that you had signed with the idolaters of the Arabian Peninsula, no longer remain valid, for they have repeatedly violated them (9:4). Freedom from obligation in this matter is proclaimed from God and His Messenger towards those of the Pagans with whom you had made a treaty. 9:7 How can there be a treaty with God and His Messenger for the idolaters (when they have repeatedly violated it?) Exempted are those with whom you make a treaty at the Sacred Masjid(mosque). If they honor and uphold such a treaty, so shall you. God loves those who live upright. The word used as idolaters is mushrikeen. its translated to unbeliever in most translations,but it doesnt mean unbeliver ,it mean idolater/anathema this word is used for muslims too in 30:31: "Hark! Do not be anathematized (Mushrik) after believing the unity of God "How can the Muslims become anathematized (Mushrik) again after believing in one God? Will they start worshipping the idols?" The Quran says, "No, anathema is not the worshipping of the idols alone." idol-worship is "Shirh-e-Khafi" (i.e., an anathema of a lesser degree), "Shirk-e-Jali" is something else. While giving its illustration, it was told that becoming Mushrik (anathematized) means (30: 31-32) “Be not among those who caused factionalism in their Deen and became factions." For this factionalism, the Quran told: (30: 32) "Every sect remains absorbed in the frenzy that it is the only sect, which is on the right, and the others are fallacious and fictitious."
Geoff justifies the use of white phosphorus on civilian populations and the starvation of children, according to him this is payback for what he thinks was done to some Jews at some time in history, notably, according to him, a reenactment of the Crusades in the Nabi Musa festival in the 1800s, which is somehow justification for Russian Jews forming a Jewish state on Arab land one hundred years later. Of course, he does not hold a consistent opinion on Jews getting "payback" elsewhere for what other Jews are doing to Palestinians. All his ideologies are fairly theoretical and have little relation to his practice of them.
Thats not the first and seventh ayats. Have you read at-Tauba? edit: never mind, I was confused by your arrangement. It begins like this: The background of the Sura is that it was revealed at a time of war and is the only one which does not begin with "In the name of God" in the entire Quran. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! thats not the point,dear friend -it mean they had the intention to kill you when they made a plan,but when they attack you physically,then its qatloqum. their intention is actual.because no war in islam was fighting BEFORE there was an attack,or battle. Mohammed pbuh didnt go to benu nadirs house and attacked them because they had the intention to kill the muslims. Edward william lane : Qatl = Murderous,slaughterous,very deadly. Qattillan = applied to a tree,and poison Raghab also tell us this word mean to low down,,subdue.
Well of course, once they break the treaty which was signed to maintain law and order and declare an intention to attack, its considered an act of war. Remember that much of the people they were fighting was their own tribesmen, there is a similar discourse in the Bhagvad Gita between Krishna and Arjun, when Arjun has to fight his cousins who have invaded and attacked them and stolen their birthrights.
The barbaric actions of Muslims speak much louder than your words or the words of the Quran. It is not what I feel or an opinion, it is a fact. And, whenever your holy books or actions are questioned, you continue to resort to violence. I know exactly what attacks means, I was asking you. Then clearly, there is a great majority of Muslims who don't know that definition, or ignore it. Most often, it is to point out to Muslims their own ignorance and intolerance. Yet, hordes of Muslims turn to violence upon seeing depictions of Muhammad, how do you explain that? You need to explain why Muslims turn to violence when there are no "attacks" as defined by you?
Dear friend : 9.1 Baraatun mina Allahi warasoolihi ila allatheena AAahadtum mina almushrikeena tranlsation word by word : Mina =Of Allahi= Allah Warasoolihi= RAsool (messenger) Ila = was the -- thrown/is the -- thrown Alazeean= root is ZA Defination is "those " Aahadatum(root ahd)=you (p) promised/you made a contract/you pledged/you recommended/you knew/you protected/you entrusted min = of Mushrekeen =idolaters/anathema ---------------------------------- if u do a word by word translation,it doesnt give any meaning. why? Because the arabic language is based on a root,and a word mean what it means,it is not based on a concept. The arabic language can only be explained. i use the explaination rather than the word by word translation : The normal translation of aya tauba ,1 is : A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:- Yusuf ali This aya have connection with another aya ,and this translation doesnt give any mehfoum,meaning. the real meaning and the connection is : (The treaties that you had signed with the idolaters of the Arabian Peninsula, no longer remain valid, for they have repeatedly violated them SURA : 9.4) then : Freedom from obligation in this matter is proclaimed from God and His Messenger towards those of the Pagans with whom you had made a treaty. thank you!
@j.a.g. Here is the similar argument in the Bhagavad Gita: http://www.freeindia.org/biographies/gods/krishna/page12.htm
