Should science replace religion?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by wegs, May 7, 2019.

  1. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Your opinion on this matter is no more or less valuable than mine. I've done nothing of the sort that you suggest. You portray your comments about religious people as fact based, but these are merely opinions, just like mine. I'm having a discussion, you are interested in baiting me, for whatever the reason. Because you assume I'm religious? I've stated that I'm not, but you continue to make false assumptions about me. Even though I'm not religious, I see no value in degrading and broad brushing people of particular beliefs, simply because I don't follow what they do. If you want to have a thoughtful, honest discussion without inserting non-truths into my statements that I've never stated, great. If not, I'm probably not going to reply much.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  3. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Peoples do; nations, empires. Their religion comes and goes with them. It's cultural.
    That's debatable - a longish debate.
    What a sweet representation of the ruthlessness of the Roman Empire, and all subsequent Christian empires, killing and torturing their way across the globe, wiping out entire peoples whose religions displeased their god! The ragged Jew was tossed overboard on the passage across the Mediterranean, c. 70AD, to be replaced by a chubby old Italian in purple robes embroidered with gold, who feasted on lobster while his peasant faithful fasted on Fridays.
     
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  5. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    And, I would argue with each one of them regarding their honesty to themselves and others, which they would have to remove from the equation in order not to look the hypocrites.

    It might be argued as such, but if we delved into the details, we might find your grandmother, along with many, many others, could have easily dealt with those things without her faith. Indoctrination is a very powerful tool and should never be used as a reason to support the dogma attached to it.
     
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  7. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Can you substantiate that claim in any way? Perhaps, if religion didn't exist and we did use science as our tool for learning about the world around us, Galileo might have been the first man on Mars as opposed to being a convict to religious beliefs.
     
  8. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This is a good example of how someone might value their faith, and believe that without it, they'd not get through difficult times. Of course the counter argument is, with all that is available to us in terms of psychological books, therapy, meditation, yoga, and other such secular paths, your grandmother might have assumed religion was her only path towards finding peace. But I have clung to faith at times of difficulties, and have also left my faith beliefs, and dealt with them, in one way or another. If your grandmother finds comfort in her faith, why should anyone judge this?
     
  9. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    It's always both. Parents can't separate their feelings from their beliefs. If they take refuge in lies, they'll assume that lies are what their child needs. It may be true - then again, it may be a convenient prop for the parents.
    That's quite different. Adults can communicate their needs and have built their own psychological props. You can figure out from their history, their lifestyle and their words whether they get more comfort from soft lies or hard truths. For a child, we - parents and caregivers - make all the decisions.
    Exactly. You can be compassionate without resorting to religious fiction. Perhaps you can be compassionate without resorting to any kind of lies.
     
  10. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Except for one major difference, Spidey can substantiate his opinions with reason, facts and evidence.
     
  11. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, let's see if he will.
     
  12. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    My point is to understand when you will begin to do that, not Spidey.
     
  13. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    There is much strife and dysfunction in North Korea, for example. I wouldn't classify Buddhism and Confucianism as religions, per se. But, Christianity is a minority. So, this is one example of how a country that is mainly non-religious, is still filled with poverty, strife and tyranny.

    I do wonder if early ''religious'' people looked at faith to mainly to provide knowledge of the universe. Honestly, many religious people that I know consider science to be a ''gift'' from God, and so they are not in conflict with it. They simply view science as a tool given to us, by God. Just another perspective.
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    The values or positive byproducts of faith (that differ from person to person), will always be subjective. I've never asserted that faith offers objective facts to support it. But, if someone makes a sweeping generalization that most religious people don't believe in modern medicine, then I'd hope there'd be some evidence to support that statement. Otherwise, it's just an opinion.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Definitely not true there.
    Sure, some faiths can do that. And of course science gave us eugenics and the Holocaust.
    And many more would appear.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I've spoken to quite a few of them. Almost none of them are hypocrites.
    Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly helped her.
    Really? Even people indoctrinated into science at an early age? They should reject the dogma that is forced upon them by their teachers?
     
  17. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Because it's a dictatorship under Communism.

    The situation of North Korea did not come about as a result of non-religious beliefs. That is absurd. And, you will find, as I did while living in a communist country, that there are a great deal of religious people there, they just aren't allowed to practice it in public.

    Except when it comes to evolution, abiogenesis and birth control, which has provided religious people with plenty of conflict. Knowledge is often evil when it comes to religions.

    Of course, those religious people who believe science is a gift from God have obviously never read the Bible. On top of that, they are insulting the people who have worked their entire lives in the pursuit of science only having to constantly defend themselves against religious dogma.
     
  18. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    It means life is gonna be good.
     
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. I think "it worked for her" is the point a lot of contributors seem to be missing.

    Science cannot take the place of religion in people's lives, because it does not provide the sorts of things I mentioned in post 5, which are to do with what helps an individual come to terms with the conditions of their own life and that of others around them.

    The example of death, which you refer to, is clearly just one aspect of life that religions deal with, but there is no doubt that religions help people to accept their own lot and/or survive the heartbreak of losing those they love, by appealing to an idea of continuity, either in the sense of the hope of future reunification in some way, or simply by emphasising continuity with humanity in past ages who also died and in their turn passed through the same rituals. It lends perspective and solace.

    It is not the job of science to do that sort of thing, obviously. And it is idle to imagine that the yearning for such things will ever disappear.
     
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  20. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, that would be key to understanding faith and it's alleged values. That's why science avoids the subjective, so that claims of value are substantiated rather than falsely asserted.
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    What a ridiculous statement.
     
  22. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    For who? Those who demand their religious freedoms or those who lose their freedoms as a result?
     
  23. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, why?
     

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