Should your self-driving car kill you to save others?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Plazma Inferno!, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is entirely true, and cannot be overstated. It covers virtually 100% of real-world accidents.

    We are talking about edge-cases, where there happens to be no safe route that doesn't endanger someone.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That being said...

    Stopping is always the best thing to do. Even if you can't avoid a collision, the energy involved drops as the second power of the speed. No matter how little time there is to slow down, there will be a dramatic drop in damage.

    And stopping is a really simple operation. None of this swerving off the road stuff.

    The thing about AI is that it is designed to anticipate dangers while still having enough time to react. They won't be blasting through yellow lights at full-speed, and they won't be barreling down country roads mindless of cross-traffic. They don't have a problem with attention span or tunnel-vision or lack of peripheral attention. They can watch for all threats simultaneously well in advance of danger.

    Something humans are really bad at.
     
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  5. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    And so, the one they had was involved in a crash, you say?! And the FSB fixed a kompromate video to force the driver to work for them? Let me guess... You, perhaps?
    EB
     
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  7. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Incorrect. Imagine the NASCAR scenario.

    Is stopping always a good thing?

    Absolutely not.

    The braking shifts weight to the front and induce a fishtail effect. Braking, even ABS braking, reduces the steerability of the car drastically also. But the main component that is important is the collision normal, you want a collision with the angle that is most parallel to the opposing body.

    Second, relative velocity. If two cars are travelling in the same direction 100 mph, it is best to match relative velocities, and in this case, braking simply increases the difference in velocities of the two bodies, causing more damage.

    Thirdly, steering into a collision can often save your life, because trying to completely avoid the collision may result in an understeer and further collisions, or the back end becoming lose and hitting it anyway. Race drivers will often "grind" a wall on purpose, rather than becoming destabilized and getting into a severe wreck.
     
  8. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Last time I was in Moscow I didn't do the driving.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Or better yet, imagine a rocketship scenario.

    Oh wait, don't. Because it is not what we're talking about here.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nor is stopping a good thing if you are riding a unicycle, because you will fall over.

    But since we're not talking about unicycles or NASCAR races, it is a much better option than hitting someone.

    No one suggested braking to cause a collision - only braking (and stopping) to avoid a collision. Note the important difference.

    Only for incompetent drivers.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,316
    Or roll the car, etc. Priorities will be written into the code.
    Where I live, there is winter. Also, freeways, school zones, ambulances on roads with no shoulders, and animals of significant size and remarkable agility occasionally in evidence on the road.

    Attempting to stop is not always the best thing to do. Even remaining stopped is not always the best option.
    My personal rule of thumb is that it takes three mistakes or the equivalent in bad luck to crash. So by avoiding the common mistakes you will seldom even have a near miss, and your bad judgment under pressure will probably never matter.
    So AI can drive safely in its designed circumstances.
    What worries me is not the AI itself (it will not be used where it does not work well) , but the adjusting of circumstances it will instigate.
     
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  12. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    273
    Well, that's not what the video seems to show!

    Still, I'm sure you could sort things out in front of a Russian judge. I hope your Russian is very good, though.
    EB
     
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    I can talk about his mama in his native tongue. That will have to do.
     
  14. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Again some of what I said went over your head.

    Your first fallacy is the bit about "hitting someone".

    But what about the bit you failed to mention about "hitting something?" You know there are more dangers than just other humans on the road.

    Second I doubt you know anything about Pajecka formula, weight shifting, or why grinding a wall (or another car, for that matter) is often more beneficial than trying to avoid the collision completely.

    Your ideas will work in 25 mile hour land, but will not always gaurantee safety in the realm of 60-80 mph highways, most certainly they are irrelevant in the autobahn realms.
     
  15. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    517
    I vote IQ. Easy way to quantify prioritized lists, plus good for the gene pool. Second, people with high IQ tend to be better drivers theoretically, therefore they most likely are owed their dues for their good safe driving records.


    Now my main complaint of AI cars is lag. I know this is Nvidia gpus. But I had some Nvida gpus and they have occasional stutter. What if the GPU freezes for 2 seconds? And it freezes because it overheats (sounds like an oxymoron to the layman I know.) Overheats because of the hot summer of course. It's like game devs can't even make decent AI enemies in games, but we are expected to trust our lives to AI...that is the essence of humor...
     

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