Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.


Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
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  1. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Yes, taking many, many hours. And provided the plaent does not have shielding. I don't dispute it coul be done, but the efficiency just sucks.
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  3. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    I don't have any problem. YOU have a fuckin problem.

    This is a typical storyline plot data that SW fans use for their purpose when it suits them. However, the Borg have had more conflicts with the Federation than Q has, and SW side don't seem to mind bringing up a Borg sceneraio. And although almost every storyline of Borg encounter ends up in assimilation of something, SW side always insists Borg won't be able to assimilate any SW

    TW Scott, and almost every SW fan have the same common tendency to twist everything they can to result in the same result: More powerful, faster ships FTW. If this is the best you can come up with, it's fuckin pathetic. You try to dictate what Trek stuff won't be effective against your technology and even which species we're allowed to enter into scenarios.

    Now, you say you can bring your hyperspace, weapon and shield tech waltzing into the Trek neighborhood? Then I submit to you that SW shields are NOT effective against every species. Even if Q isn't present, there's other species who have toyed with someone's reality much like Q does. Not every Trek species can be contained by force fields, and no kind of shields would prevent some species from opening a portal right inside a ship.

    Of course you'll bitch and complain they cant be used and throw us some technicality:
    ...because it doesn't fit into your 'Automatic Win for SW' fantasies. So we can't use Q, or Species 8472, but we CAN use the Borg, but they can't assimilate anything. Next, we won't be allowed use of Transporters because
    So, Mr TW 'I-make-the-rules-of-what-ST-stuff-is-allowed Scott... is there anything else you'd like to mention? Do we all need to ask YOU which species is okay, and does it need to be in writing or can we just phone it in? And while we're waiting for the go/no-go for species... Add this one to the list. He may not be Q but he'll fuck with your head and ask you all about the mortaility of your species, and then we'll have him kill your most valuable character for a demonstration.

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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    No, taking many, many seconds, ergo minutes. It could raze a planets surface and eradicate all life in under an hour... given hours, it could liquefy the crust...
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  7. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Heck yeah, there's many ways to destroy a planet. Many ways to kill all life on a planet. Gotta wonder though - what kind of nonsense will be said -
    "SW Planetary Shields are impenetrable to Trek weapons."
    "Borg nanoprobes cant get through SW shields."
    "SW Shields don't allow temporal anomalies to penetrate."
    Wait... the best one:
    "SW shields are effective against every single Trek species"

    and I'm sure the word 'canon' would pop up somewhere in there...
  8. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Not to mention, the Q continuum would look at the Imperial Fleet and think, "They lost 2 Death Stars so now they're all pissed off and looking for somebody to take it out on. Just send them back to their pathetic little corner of their own galaxy and keep them contained there. If they can't find enough to keep their sadistic minds occupied, just turn all their ships PINK... they'd likely hide in embarrassment rather than be seen trying to start a war."
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    See, the thing Scott can't seem to grasp, is that the Q are TESTING humanity - they believe humanity is the "next great species"... they have no powers, no physical abilities to speak of, and their intelligence is rather standard. They don't possess fangs or claws or the ability to breath underwater... yet humanity has survived countless conflicts with other, far more hostile (and technologically advanced) races... the Continuum is intrigued by this, and Picard in particular is Q's (John DeLance's Q anyway) pride and joy... likey, the Q would protect Humanity from any REAL threat (as they did with the Borg).

    Oh, Scott, how did Q protect the Federation from the Borg?

    Simple -he introduced the Ent-D to the Borg... showing how VASTLY overwhelmed they were by a single scout cube. The Federation undertook MASSIVE upgrading and anti-borg efforts after that, and still are... all because Q had the foresight to give them a heads up...
  10. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    No, I don;t have a problem, but hey go on continue with the ad hominem

    Untrue. In Scorpian the Borg gained nothing. In first Contact they gained nothing new. In I, Borg they gained a schism in their collective. The borg have lost much more than they have gained in every conflict with the federation.

    I'm not didtating. I'm just saying if you go by canon then you know Q will do nothing and neither will Species 8472. If you want to abandon canon behaviour we would have the Republic, Empire, CIS, Rebellion, New Alliance, Ssi'ruk, Ang-Ti, Yuzhaan Vong, Chiss, and several other races in the game. We would also have 6 billion years of technological development. But you don;t see us pulling all that, do you?

    Actually every time someone has messed with the shields it has been becuase of frequency or temporal distortion. Something SW ships are designed and built to counter. There is massive temporal distortion in Hyperspace and only the most groslly misplotted course ever has a negative effect on the vessel.

    No, I said it would take a lot of time for the Borg to assimiliate anything. And you can;t use Q or Species 8472 becuase it not how they would act cannonically. Using something against canon is a no-no. You don;t see us going that the Emperor-Luke and Vader working together to summon a massive force storm and wipe out the galaxy, bc it would be against how Vader and Luke would act.

    I don;t make the rules, Gene did. Canon is the shows and movies. Technically if we go by what he said it isn;t Star Trek untill he says it is. But he laid down the stories and behaviors and thus you cannot work counter to them without letting us work counter to ours.

    Actually he has no reason to interfere becuase he already learned of mortality. Also as a life form he would be susceptial to the force. But again this is only going by canon, which you seem to have a problem comprehending
  11. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    This is what you don't get the Empire is run by HUMANITY so as far as Q would be concerned HUMANITY would survive and thrive no matter what. The Q care not on wit about the Federation or the Empire. Either side winning means HUMANITY thrives. In fact if the Empire wins it just mean HUMANITY would have a better chance at becomeing that next big race as the Empire could easily crush any other Galatic power in the Milky Way.
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Actually considering the limited firepower of even Quantom torpedoes, even with a full compliment the Definat would take hours to destroy all civilization on an Earth sized world. A smaller would like the Founder Homeworld would take less time, but we are still talking hours even if you decide to create a massive FAE bomb with the replicators.
  13. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Original Enterprise could do it in a few hours, don't see why a Defiant class couldn't at least match up. But I'm sure you'll find some convenient way, so that the starship looks awful when compared against your bloated SW "measurements"
  14. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    You do have a problem, dickhead. Stop acting like your shit don't stink.

    I said, "However, the Borg have had more conflicts with the Federation...And although almost every storyline of Borg encounter ends up in assimilation of something." I never said a damn thing about gaining something new. However, when they assimilate a fleet officer, it IS something new. Don't assume what I meant, and dont twist what I say like you do everything else."

    "So if the two universes collided and had to do battle with each other (I mean like Klingons, Borg, Feds vs New Republic, Imperials, Hapes Cluster, Hutts, Jedi, you get the idea...) who would emerge victorious? This is the type of conversation we all have as little children, so enjoy!"

    That is the first post of the thread. I don't see it saying 'ST Humanity vs SW Humanity.' So it's not a matter of Q protecting humanity, its about Q's home universe vs the SW universe. In an event like this, hell yeah - you better start forming alliances and as I recall, Voyager and 8472 had a little thing going when they convinced them that humanity was not a threat... so its quite likely they would join forces since by my definition, since the SW side would be a threat to ALL species of the ST side.

    I don't know how you interpreted the first post, but it doesn't appear to mean 'If the two existed together, what would happen?' To me, "Klingons, Borg, Feds vs New Republic, Imperials, Hapes Cluster, Hutts, Jedi, you get the idea..." looks like ST Species vs SW species."
  15. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Dudes, I didnt read thru all 800+ pages to see what all rules are allowed and I'm pretty much convinced of what would happen in a scenario, as I interpreted the from the 1st post. Wars would have a serious jump on the destruction of many, then have their asses handed to them in a political power struggle as their highest ranks have their reality bitch-slapped for the fun of it. Luke's 'failure in the cave' visual experience is nothing compared to the extent of mental trauma captives would be subjected to. They'd strip memories and replace them, alter the nature of their identity, just a wide variety of things they'd do just for the sake of 'experiment'.

    That said, I think I can find something else to spend my time with. Its been real... and good meeting those who have a brain. Have fun with the debating if TW Scott stops trying to run the show. If I missed the rules and he's right, then good for him but it's pretty stupid to think that passive behavioral tendencies won't change to defend their universe if attacked, and ultimately if its for overall 'rule' then yeah, Q would have something to say about that, especially with him being so fond of Janeway.

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  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Ignore Scott... he has problems... namely higher brain function problems, but problem none the less... I feel rather sorry for him.:shrug:
  17. wolf359 Registered Member

    I have to say all of the conversation about who is in command and who fights who is interesting, however the point that everyone (particularly the SW fans) seems to miss is that the technology in the Star Trek universe is significantly more advanced than that of the Star Wars universe. So, no matter how "turbo" a laser is, it is still inferior to phaser technology. Advantage Star Trek

    Hull materials will also be different, simply because of the weapons used. This would also make the hull materials able to withstand more abuse in the Star Trek universe than in the SW universe because the weaponry is more destructive in the ST universe. Advantage Star Trek

    Then there is the issue of shields, which would follow the same logic as the hull materials. A laser, being older technology would not penetrate shields designed to withstand the more advanced and powerful phaser fire. Advantage Star Trek

    As to the "size" issue, if your limiting this to the Federation, then SW has a small advantage. However, with much more advanced weapons (both beam and missile type), even the Enterprise D would make quick work of a Star Destroyer. Advantage Star Trek

    However, if you bring in any one of: the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Borg, Husnock, Tamarians, or even Species 8472, the SW universe would be toast twice as quickly. As everyone knows, the Enterprise D was not originally designed to be a warship. However, the advanced weapons and defensive capabilities would give it an advantage against anything the SW universe could throw at it.

    Don't give me the Deathstar argument because that doesn't hold water either. The Deathstar is great against planets, however a starship can maneuver whereas a planet cannot. If the Enterprise was disabled, then the Deathstar might be successful as long as the Deathstar was out of range (which is 300,000 kilometers or 186,411 miles) of its roughly 275 photon torpedoes traveling at near the speed of light. Which means that by the time the Deathstar could charge it main weapon (a full day by most estimates), it would be disabled or destroyed.

    So although SW fans like to fantasize about how powerful their starships are, in reality (albeit science fiction reality) they would not win in a fight with Star Trek universe (or the Babylon 5 universe either). Now, the SW universe could whip some booty in the BSG universe, so you can feel good about that!
  18. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    I have to say I'd tend to agree with everything you said. Even the delivery system of the lasers - big slow turrets that pulse out these so-called super-powerful infinity+ billion ultra-giga-megawatt lasers :bugeye:To me that shows just how primitive that technology is: Rotating turrets! And the Falcon's manual point & shoot weapons - that's just rediculous.

    Also, and this is mostly curiosity... I don't think the ST deflector dish gets enough recognition for its potential to really **** stuff up. It's been used a number of times to do some pretty cool stuff. I don't pretend to have a complete understanding of it but lets just say I wouldn't want my ship in front of it. They modify it for so much shit, its like the Swiss Army Knife of beam emitters.

    With 7 of 9's extensive knowledge? Some sorta inverse variable-phase temporal radiation field disruption beam emission... guarenteed to disrupt SOMETHING on a ship, shielded or not. Don't know what, but 100:1 your engines won't fire and your first priority will be restoring life support. On top of that, two other random systems usually shut down, like navigation, communication, long range sensors...

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    Seriously tho, pretty sure if hyperdrive has a vulnerability to gravity wells... the Borg already know and you won't be sneaking out of a fight with it. Once an ISD shows up, they'd have just long enough to be scanned and if their business isn't complete, that ship is gonna be captured... and I guess the Borg could sell it for parts.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  19. Char Dun Dun DUUUUNNNNN!!! Registered Senior Member

    Ok first of all TW Scottyou say that you are a trekkie yet you blanently ignore so many facts from the show, then when someone points it out you complain that it is a ad hominem arguement, also think of the spokes of a bike they arnt very fast BUT they are still blurry to the eye now take a star ship going abour an eighth of the speed of light, do you really think a human eye could track that let alone hit it with the manuel lasers on any SW ship, s lot of good that billions of years of advancements have made.

    Also since you bitch on about canon behaviour there will be no jedi helping your stupid stormtroopers aim, so basically trek has won, and thats not even taking into account treks suppirior firepower,sheilds,stratagy oh and heres the big one in scifi SCIENCE and tech
  20. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    It seems that most longer lasting and well maintained boards and forums have reached the conclusion of Star Trek over Star Wars in almost all fields except hyper-spatial and droid tech. One question that i have been trying to find an answer for is the relative absence of Hyperspace in the Star Trek canon universe.

    As far as I've checked on Memory Alpha and my limited memory of ST, there has been overall three references to hyperspace and hyperdrives in the shows. If hyperspace is so easy to enter and use in the Wars universe, why is it that most advanced Trek species don't use it?
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    A) It's unpredictable - you still have a physical "mass" in realspace, yet you are incapable of seeing or doing ANYTHING while in hyperspace

    B) It's impractical - again, cannot shoot, maneuver, no shields, et al while in hyperspace.

    C) It's slow - Quantum Slipstream is a quantum leap ahead of Hyperspace, and is what the Federation is working on with the Nova class starships.
  22. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    I already know of the limitations of hyperspace but for me it seems that hyperspace is somehow very efficient. It may be slower than most transwarp drives but a very fast drive that uses a gamma ray burst to push a ship into hyperspace and keeping minor temporal and quantum shielding to maintain transit is well within any ST tech. However, the safe routes needed should have been at least known in the Milky Way for a while considering the length of time the FTL races have been around.

    The thing I am most curious about is actually hypermatter. If I were to go with the obviously false giga-ton weaponary that Warsies claim, I can only jusitify that with hypermatter reactors releasing massive amounts of energy for its near-zero mass. The only other fuel rivaling hypermatter's appearant efficiency is Omega and we know the risks of that prevents usage. Why would most ST species ignore such a potent energy source as hyperspace then? They don't need to use hyperdrives, just hypermatter reactors.

    I guess I should have rephrased my question as "Does hyperspace as it appears in Star Wars exist in Star Trek?" If so, most ST species are acting rather stupid. On the same token, if it doesn't, SW no longer has the hyperdrive speed or power advantage in the Milky Way.
  23. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    This is actually an interesting point.

    If one turbo laser (with TW's fantastic power output), on an articulating base, possibly with a person manually firing:

    1. How exactly would the moving parts hold up against the backlash of that turbo laser blast?
    2. Wouldn't just the ambient heat at time of firing vapourize the gunner?

    Seven of Nine came up with a shield modulation that enabled the Delta Flyer to navigate inside a multi million terajoule spatial anomaly. Even if one makes wild guesses at the power output at the edges (which is impossible given the information), logical strategy would be to cater for higher estimates of energetic reactions inside the anomaly.

    At any rate, just giving a peek into Seven's knowledge.

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    Left this image cause it's cool!
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