Star Wars vs Star Trek

becuase that is an example of the "superiority" of the empire's sensors lol. they do not even detects a change in mass on their own vessels :m:
i just not consider it a deus ex machina for an instant ST win.

 

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when i said "->" I didnt mean it as a less than sign, it literally means an arrow pointing tot he right.

 

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Where would Dreadnought be? That sucker had energy weapon defenses and what all the hell else it was using to just devastate its attackers.

Isolytic bursts and Tricobalt devices are my fav...

The tricobalt warhead is a subspace weapon whose high-yield detonations can tear holes in subspace. Tricobalt devices are not a standard armament of Federation vessels and yields are calculated in Tera-Cochranes

So what is a Tera Cochran?

 

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Actually, against bare hull, they would not - starship hulls can withstand intense temperatures and stresses, I doubt a petty laser would be enough to cause much problems, much less so after you factor in armor plating

 

Terra cochran involves, literally, the damage done to the fabric of space and time itself... lol. It's a measure of warp-field instability IIRC, and at more than 10 TC you risk ripping a hole in time and space...

 

and to be slightly more specific, one cochrane is the amount of subspace stress needed to reach warp 1 and the speed of light.

 

If I am remembering correctly on tricobalt warheads, because they can cause serious stress on subspace, their use as weapons is not realised to full potential as subspace weaponary is banned by the Feds.

Would someone really blow up their only way of superluminal transit and communications just to win in a petty battle?

 

the dreadnought was a ship i believe, as such it was conventionally armed if i recall. oversized and overpowered but still conventional. so a phaser is a phaser, 1000 times stronger or bigger phaser is still a phaser, as 1000 times stronger disruptor would beat it in shear firepower.

i thought of the subspace weapons but i really have no idea of how to classify them. sure they posed a threat to E-E but at the time the ship was already crippled.

as for the Tera Cochran, as the man said is a warp field measure, 1 Cochran is a warp field intensity required to go to warp 1. this leads to a possible conclusion that tri-cobolt devices are subspace weapons. however Insurrection shows us that such weapons are banned in the Federation if not Alpha and Beta quadrants too. so why would a light scout cruiser be equipped with contraband?

a possible solution is that tri-cobalts are not directly subspace based (so not as unpredictable and unarticulated) but they do cause a bang equal to the said stress or they do affect subspace in similar manner.

in both cases however they are used on defenseless targets which may limit their tactical use.

 

oh and please point out 2 references here:

1. where in ST do they state bare hull/armor is immune to lasers/thermal threats
(the shields are largely immune yes)
2. where in SW did their TLs act as if they are "petty" lasers?

 

Well, in Trek, the hull of starships has withstood a number of things (I'd give episodes but I'm short on time so can't look em up)

1- going to warp without a stable SIF field or shields (Voyager)
2- dogfighting near the surface of a star (ds9) even after the shields failed
3- thermal effects from plasma weapons (TOS, Ent) which are more powerful than lasers

And TL's are "petty" lasers in that they are just that, lasers

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No matter how big you make em, they still have the same limitations as other lasers.

 

While the use of subspace weapons is banned, tri-cobalts don't NORMALLY cause subspace tears unless you bump their power up considerably (like janeway did). I think she was cleared to use them though (I mean, who was gonna court martial her, lol?)

 

Yes. I wouldn't be standing still! Dont matter how many ships with any number of blaster cannons or whatever the fuck... They cant shoot what they cant catch and don't sit and dream up some 'but you're surrounded' scenario cuzz thats bullshit.

 

lol, and how about some "solid" figures like atmospheric entry? in The Arsenal of Freedom the E-D's hull takes serious damage after it gets heated to a few thousand degrees (2-3000, can't remember the exact value now, but if you like more details see the episode, i know i will as soon as i get back from work). this kind of temperature can be matched with good focus and really powerful "petty" lasers.

and then as if 800 pages have thought you nothing, since when do lasers travel in bolts that can be spoted by naked eye in vacuum non the less?

 

no need to get surrounded dude, Ep VI shows the HTLs travel at least some 1000-3000 m/s. even with the terrible accuracy of the empire's crews/platforms you have to take into account that there will be at least 30 of them shooting at you from one ship and who can tell how many lighter versions. add to that the empire's habit of deploying in clusters and there will be lots of cross fire and collateral damage. given that both sides tend to engage at point blank range i doubt you could avoid being hit. not to mention that aside from Defiant no other Trek ship has shown maneuvrability that involves changes in direction for more then 2-300m per second. and some (like GCS) are really large and easy targets. if it comes to close fighting (like battles for planets or systems would be) there will hardly be any dodging. there was no dodging in the Dominion Wars.

 

i think the ban was for weapons that were sub-space in nature (using it as eighter medium for travel or method of delivery). this is why i don't think tri-cobalts were subspace weapons as such. they have the ability to affect sub-space, but so do other weapons (even phasers and tachyon beams).

 

They don't mention any temperatures in the episode, but you're talking atmospheric re-entry of a vessel as large as the Ent-D (without the saucer section and half it's shield generators, mind you)... even if they're only going at half impulse, that's still exceeding 1/4 the speed of light! I would venture a guess that's more than a few thousand degrees.

 

According to your own scenario there's absolutely no chance of beaming anything over. Fine. You're always right, in case I didn't mention that yet.

 

time index 40:39
Lee-ann: hull temperature 1000 degrees and rising

40:51
2500 degrees

40:59
3000 degres,

41:06
3300 degrees
at which point they start loosing deflectors (number 4 is inoperative). loosing deflectors means the grid has got damaged.

there you go as promised

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sure there can be a chance, after the enemy has been damaged enough, just like in trek. otherwise the risk is just to high. why wasting time, energy and shields to beam over a single warhead if you can barage the target from a distance and take far less hits?

 

Like I said, they don't mention temperatures. What's that in? Kelvin? Celsius? Fahrenheit? 3300 degrees Celsius = 5972 degrees Fahrenheit for example, and having almsot 6k degrees on the ENTIRE front half of the deflector grid (plus the kinetic energy from the actual reentry) has to be an ENORMOUS power drain. You can't really compare that to the point-area effect of a laser burst

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