Steam Powered Flying Vehicle?

Hi. I'm fairly new to Sciforums and this is my first post. I'm a professional artist and amateur writer with a ot of enthusiasm for science but only some rudimentary scientific training. My interest in this forums isn't really that of hard science but more of as a reference for my writing.

So, what would it take to make a steam powered flying vehicle (Short of a miracle)?

Which of the Sciforums would be a better place for this post? I was directed here from Free Thoughts. Has anyone else wondered about this?

 

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A steam powered flying vehicle isn't really that complicated to make. You just need a lot a concentrated hydrogen peroxide, and some silver metal.

Silver metal is a catalyst, and causes hydrogen peroxide to explosively disassociate into O2 gas and steam. So basically you can just channel this explosive energy in any way you like and you've got a rocket motor powered on steam and oxygen.

This was the idea behind the development of some kind of jetpack quite a few years back. Didn't work out very well it seems, as you don't see them everywhere today. Probably because of the very limited amount of fuel it could carry. About 20-30 seconds of powered flight only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Rocket_Belt

 

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Kibbles,

I'm no expert in engineering, but I'd like to put my two cents in.

dzerzhinsky's solution is possible (because it has been done multiple times), but not practical. Those rockets run out of fuel quickly, and so it isn't practical to "fly" in, but more of just giant leaps or short flight before running out of propulsion. That's the reason why those aren't used today practically.

Another way to look at it, is by using a steam powered engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine) to spin propellers or blades for lift off. Though, the problem is steam powered isn't going to be strong enough to actually lift the machine, unless it's instense steam and the machine is light.

It's more practical to fly in a hot air balloon. So, technically, if you plan on writing about it, don't go too much into detail if you want credibility of it.

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[Renrue]

 

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how big of a steam-powered vehicle are you aiming at? personal? ocean-liner sized? i suppose a blimp would be your best bet, probably colored black to get extra lift from solar heat. and whatever you do, you'd want a system with as little water in your system as possible, because water is heavy and so is the structure you'd need to support it.

i'm wondering if it isn't possible to make a steam engine where the furnace would heat raw air rather than water and use that air expansion to drive a turbine. if the mechanics were right, maybe the turbine would work like a jet engine? warm air comming out of the furnace spins the aft blades which spin the front blades which draw in more air? hell, that'd be an 18th century turboprop if a propeller were stuck on the blade shaft, just wouldn't be powerful enough for fixed-wing. might be perfect for a blimp though... if it'd work. i'm not far enough in my studies to really look into that

 

I was thinking something along the lines of a small plane or boat, maybe capable of holding 4 to 8 people. Basically, I'm trying to figure out what technology is actually possible in an alternate history/speculative fiction/steampunk type of setting.

So far the following seem feasible:
Hot air baloons
Gliders (and kite-like devices)
Difference engines
Da vinchi's parachute (it works with some modification)
Huge huge cannons
Steam powered armored vehicles
and maybe sunlight powered devices utilizing lenses and prisms and the like

I wanted to put a little part about how people are trying to use a giant gun to try to send things in orbit but are having the problems with sending anything worthwhile (like people) into space. I'll figure out the plausibility of that later.

I remembered an old illustration of a steam powered flying vehicle and wondered if it was possible.

A compressed hydrogen peroxide jet seems workeable too but, as mentioned, probably not for sustained flight.

So. Is sustained steam powered flight possible?

 

i don't know enough about a definite answer to the steam-powered plane, but as for a cannon that'd send something to space, that cannon would needs to be outrageously huge, talking many, many, many miles in length. I suppose such a cannon could fire things capable of withstanding hundreds of gees, but it'd be almost inconcievable that it'd fire people ever, unless your cannon were HUNDREDS of miles long, long enough to allow for reasonable acceleration. a similar idea involving a mag-lev "cannon" was researched as a launch system to jump-start ramjet engines at mach 3 or so before having them fly into space, but this needs considreable infrastructure.

but hey, maybe the cannon (or enclosed steam-catapult) is a super-power's crowning achievement, and hundreds of miles of buried track are mined out for the effort, with a factory using huge quantities of something highly flammable, say magnisium metal, to flash-boil lots and lots of steam for the cannon. or the cannon could be lined with explosives that progressively fire as the "ship" is accelerated. or they could just discover alcohol and nitous oxide and take it from there.

 

About how big should this cannon be? (or how should I go about computing for this?)

 

I think a nuclear-powered airplane was proposed in the 50's. This would use steam as an intermediary power source. It is possible to do what you describe, but it would not happen in reality, since wood doesn't have enough energy, and if you have gasoline, why not use internal combustion? Also, water is very heavy. The advantage of trains is that they can carry alot of weight.

I did see a steam powered motorcycle, that was neat.

 

The steam engine itself isn't the limitation. The old Stanley Steamer automobile could outperform most other cars of its day. The engine itself put out something like 100 hp and was only a foot or so across, iirc. The limiting factor is the weight of the steam generator (boiler) and condenser.

 

So a steam plane with a boiler for water and condenser is pretty much impossible?

 

I HAVE worked for some time on a power system.. steam based...
for a flying machine...

basically... all you need to do.. is burn alot of fuel.. real fast... and heat up measured and controlled amounts of water to 300psi.... REAL FAST.

however... the building of such a flash boiler... is problematic... especially.. if it has to be light weight...

-MT

 

Oh well... Scratch the steam powered airplanes from my story for being too impractical.

Scientific accuracy isn't exactly a requirement for literary works but I'm sure that at least some scientists will read my story (assuming it gets anywhere). If so, they'll likely comment on the science of it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Now about that space cannon...

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The flash boiler can work. The biggest headache about steam power in a vehicle is a boiler explosion. Yes, a petroleum fire is bad but fuel tank explosions are rare. A live steam explosion is horrific. The latent heat of condensation causes terrible burns. Instant parboil.

Strictly speaking though, I see no reason a steam engine airplane won't work. Some years ago I read an article about a university project converting an old VW beatle to steam using a flash boiler. Worked pretty well apparently, although "throttle lag" was a little inconvenient.

 

That's what I was thinking at first but then there's the problem of the weight of all the water involved vs lift. What kind of system/mechanism/whatever be used to make a light enough steam boiler and condenser?

 

can you imagine lindberg in a steam powered plane?

 

Charles Lindbergh?

 

yeah
that poor guy would be wore out by the time he landed

 

An interesting fellow.

Anyone have anything more on the steam powered plane thing? If not I'll just focus on the cannon idea.

 

A flash boiler is basically a coiled or folded high pressure tube heated by flame on the outside. An injector pump squirts in water at high pressure, it flashes to steam. Hence the name, "flash boiler" (aka flash generator). Steam drives the engine. Engine exhausts to the condensor (a radiator, more or less). Water from condensor to injector pump. Closed loop.

Water volume doesn't have to be all that large, maybe a few gallons. Or course you still have to carry your fuel as well. But certainly workable.

 

WHAT are you talking about.. condensor?
just use propellers and accept a 12 percent efficiency... otherwise.. use larger propellers...
and use hy pressure turbines at the blade hubs for torque and exhaust the gas in the blades or otherwise in the right direction...

using a hypothetical flash boiler... which can handle the application of a large hot flame... without melting.. and at the same time can handle hypressure steam at 300 psi or more in its small chamber... which is refillable via injection....
this boiler then... need only consist of the proper alloy.. of sorts..
its output goes to distribution to various parts of the craft.. to drive whatever motor system there.... ideally to small tanks.. for acting as capacity and allow for more powered controll.

with that kind of power.. you can aford to carry 100 lbs of water... 10 gallons at least...

-MT