That's like saying we need to define what's black and white at the same time.
Supernatural?
- Thread starter mathman
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That's like saying we need to define what's black and white at the same time.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
I think the crux of it is that the supernatural defies even the principle of analyzing it.
Dark matter is very hard to analyze, but there's no principle that means we will never be able to measure it, analyze it, model it and even reproduce it in a lab.
Can the same thing be said about God?
Yes and No. God can Know Himself yet not Know Himself. Imagination is every child's playground of self-discovery, but there is a limitation, or so I believe.
One is that which can be detected and measured while the other cannot. It's often considered the actual existence of things and the non-existence of things claimed to exist.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Well, that's not really what I asked.
Can we humans analyze it, model it and know how it works by applying scientific methods?
I don't believe we can from the limitations of natural perception, but maybe from supernatural perception, we can.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Right. So that is the definition of supernatural (even if it's simply circular).
But it answers your question: what makes something supernatural? We can't observe, study or model it with natural perception; it requires supernatural perceptive ability (whatever that is).
Kinda like supernatural consciousness?
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Whatever that is, sure.
If there are creatures that are invisible to sight, and can only be seen with Wowzavision, then, to see them, you'll need to have Wowzavision.
Note that the above statement does not mean Wowza creatures or Wowza goggles exist.
It is a self-contained logic, but self-contained logic doesn't say anything about whether the subject is actually real.
Agreement of two or more individual conscious beings would be helpful, wouldn't it?
No, dependent on whether something can be detected and measured. Perceptions can come in the form of instruments and machines that are capable of detecting and measuring to great degrees of accuracy.
I would answer those question if I knew what you were talking about, but I have no idea what you're asking.
I am detectable and measurable, just like you and everyone else, hence we are natural and therefore we exist.
And? What is your point?
Can't see what? I still have no idea what you're asking.
No, it wouldn't make your finger real, but it would make the dream of measuring your finger real.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
You cannot "see" it either. By definition super-natural is "invisible". You can "imagine it", but that's not proof.
Nope. By definition, the supernatural cannot be detected by any natural method (measurement, sight, temperature etc.)
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
I must disagree.
Traditional ghosts are supernatural and they can ostensibly be seen and heard.
I'd say the the supernatural describes things that can't be explained by natural means (i.e. known science).
If you are seeing ànd hearing it is NOT supernatural and not ghost
Possible not explainable, but that's another story in the - where is the evidence for the cause of vision and noise - tray
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Anil Seth makes some compelling observarions in that regard. The process is actually much deeper than most can imagine. You have to believe it before you can experience it.
That gets very complicated.