I had the thought that perhaps truly long term strategy minded terrorists might hope Bush will win (or be placed back in office) in '04. Because he'll almost certainly feed growing world hatred of the USA, which could *assure* the eventual downfall of America. No matter that our military might is as mighty as it is, no nation can exist forever as an island. And incidentally, I don't want this to happen. From a simple selfish standpoint, the death throes of the USA would be a horrible thing to experience. For my, and my childrens sake - I hope that we become the worlds darling again. Additionally, the rest of the world should hope the same . . . because I don't think we would go gently into the night, I think we'd take a lot of folks with us! Thoughts?
The terrorists sure love Bush: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35365 What Americans don't understand that overwhleming military force, and imposition of American values is exactly what they want.
he'll almost certainly feed growing world hatred of the USA, which could *assure* the eventual downfall of America IMHO America will destroy itself. You don't need the rest of the world to help you. Dee Cee
Perhaps. It looks like an ugly ride regardless of the specifics of its origin. But, unfortunately for you, I think our death spasms will be childish and ugly . . . and we have a LOT of weapons.
and we have a LOT of weapons. And pisspoor social care. Perhaps weapons have a larger profit attached. Me? I'm not worried I'll just be one of the millions who ends up picking up the pieces of the failed American experiment. I suspect there will be very little profit in it but what the hell we'll do it anyway. Dee Cee
Well yeah, among the worst social care in the industrialized world. Its part of what is driving us to behave like shortsighted pirates, plundering the rest of the world! Seize the day! Live for the moment! Might makes right! Our god is bigger than your god!
So, the fact that you and your family cannot adequately support yourselves, beyond the level of your own collective abilities, obligates me exactly how to sacrifice the needs of my own familiy for yours? How does the fact of your existence obligate me to provide to you more than the fact of my existence obligates you to provide to me? Because you like the European model of wealth redistribution and I don't?
So, the fact that you and your family cannot adequately support yourselves, beyond the level of your own collective abilities, obligates me exactly how to sacrifice the needs of my own familiy for yours? It's called society G. BTW When your health insurance runs out 12 years into a chronic medical condition (MS MN Parkinsons take ya pick) I presume you'll do others the favour of turning down anything the state may wish to offer you. Dee Cee
So, if the idea of using any of our money for our collective good bothers you Mr. G - then I assume you don't use our highways and interstates? Have not benefitted in any way from us having national defense or police forces? Because of your strong principles you've never partaken of any of the medical technology created on the public dime? Any of the argricultural products created/maintained by the same? Part of the very definition of a civilization/society is a group of people who have pooled some of their resources for the common good. Even ant colony's do this. But are you such a motivated and powerful individual that you really don't desire or benefit from any of these combined efforts? P.S. The concept of people combining resources and efforts for the common good *FAR* predates any "European model".
I hope Mr.G doesn't get social security, I hope he pays for the road outside his house with his own money, I hope he pays the full cost for the pipes, electricity polls, telephone poles, and I hope his children will be going to a private school. Damn hypocrite.
Utilizing a service that exist and that I have already paid for through taxes is just good fiscal sense. I know some body who decided not to accept health insurance because he will earn more without it if he gets sick it is my money that he will be using. We are not that good of friends. If you made a special tax that came out of everyone’s check at a flat rate to pay for health care then I would agree. But without some fiscal incentive no one takes any responsibility for their health care decisions. This is one of the reasons for sky rocketing health care. Less than 15 % of the procedures are emergency care and still no one compares prices or success rates or anything. Do I like the doctor or not is not the best health care determiner.
I was going to start a thread about Osama's strategy then I saw this thread. Then I read how the thread degenerated into the usual crap and think I might as well start a new thread. Then again why bother at all? Anyway, there WILL NOT be a terrorist attack in America until after the elections. Attacking before would reveal the lie of Bush's statement that America is now safer. And indeed Bush has been obviously excellent for terrorism recruiting purposes. The last Osama wants to do is help put some reasonable fellow into the white house. And for the usual crap: Health care is universal in the other industrialized countries and whaddya know? The US life expectancy is about 14th behind all these other countries. And per capita we spend more on health care than any other country. (End of fucking argument!) The idea that government is more inefficient than private enterprise is dishonest propaganda that billionaires have been pounding us into submission with to help maintain the status quo. (First and foremost Richard Mellon Scaife has pounded us with hundreds of millions of dollars to keep this crap coming at us.) Including even paying people to go to discussion boards as proven during the Steve Kangas murder fiasco.
DeeCee; I pay my taxes, and I give to charity. That's called "society". I'm self-employed: I trade service for volutary remuneration. That's called "society". I'd greatfully accept voluntary assistance from willing individuals. Your idea of State offerings is involuntary slavitude: You presume your personal need is greater than the need of others to be protected from your userous existence exercised by extortional proxies. Society shouldn't be about your need for blood-sucking. cckieran; About compassion, eh? Then why are there so many liberal, Democrat Billionares and Millionares who couldn't be so if they've given away all their personal wealth to the impoverished masses to whom they so compassionately relate? I've never received in the mail a check from a liberal, Democrat, self-proclaimed Saint Compassion. I wonder why. Gravity; So, I should be bothered by the fact you've never sent me money? Your talk, your walk. Loan me 500K? I pay my taxes and I give to charity. What have you done for me lately? Loan me the 500K. You have it, don't'ya? What? Society has failed you and you won't have it until next Friday? Cup and pencil time, dude. Undecided; I'm not anticipating that you ever could be capable of voluntarily doing such things for me. So I guess I'll have to do it all for myself. So much for your idea of society: Gather together those who can do it all for you, because you obvioulsy can't do it for yourself, or for anyone else. You need slaves to survive. You haven't the smarts to do it for yourself. What makes you think you have the smarts to protect yourselves from those of us who might be thinking you're just another common thief?
So G, the question still remains though . . . the core of this unanswered. You mentioned several times that you pay your taxes. If you don't have a problem paying your taxes, than whats the problem? If you don't like paying taxes, then just go to an isolated cave so you reap none of its benefits - and then thats no problem too! Your arguments seem determined, and even angry, however they are hypocritical arguments if your actions/life directly contradict them.
Huh? My schools benefited greatly from the energy/skill/taxes put into them. Their curriculum benefiting greatly from the energy/skill/taxes put into it. The roads I got to school on. The medicines and agriculture that kept me alive to go to that school. The army's that have defended that land the school was built on . . . and so on. We are where we are because of the energy/skill/taxes of others. No man is an island. So putting some energy/skill/taxes back into the system for others, just keeps the cycle of sharing the good going. We get higher and higher by give each other boosts, and pulling others up after you've been boosted up. Seems pretty easy to understand. I love Ayn Rands writing, but its unfortunately overly optomistic about the reality of human diversity, wisdom and intelligence. And though it may not have been this way in intent, in execution by humans - lacks the empathy and compassion which are among the more pleasent of human species survival instincts.
