The Confederate Flag

Discussion in 'World Events' started by dumbest man on earth, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,577
    Now that ^^ is intelligence on display.
    Every time the "but that's our history" argument comes around, I ask:
    Then how come those southern generals are never depicted kneeling on their broken sword in defeat?(How come John A Macdonald is not depicted stabbing Louis Riel in the back? etc.)
    In fact, all monuments are lies; the confederate ones are just more fraudulent than the norm.
    How about this? If you don't put your heroes on pedestals, nobody will ever have the fun of dragging them down.
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    If not legalised we can scape goat those evil folk who indulged in slavery.
    I guess my point was one could think the conditions were such you could expect it to have become the norm.
    Thanks for the link..I hope you are doing ok.
    Alex
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    As a prisoner you had a date for release something slaves did not.
    Certainly it is tempting to parrallel the two but when you think it through there is a big difference..a prisoner was doing time for a conviction of a crime which carried a term whereas a slaves was kidnapped without any reason other than to make him a slave ..he committed no crime.
    Folk say how wonderful the Romans were..I wonder if you took away the slaves if it would have been able to boast any wonderful achievements..and Julius Caesar remembered as a great general and yet it seems to me he was just a high turn over slave trader.
    Alex
     
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  7. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    In theory. In practice, a term could be extended indefinitely for bogus infractions of imaginary rules. Also, I would take the term "conviction" with a large grain of salt. The US did much the same to extend slavery after emancipation:
    Unable to pay the array of fees assessed on every prisoner—fees to the sheriff, the deputy, the court clerk, the witnesses—Cottenham's [vagrancy] sentence was extended to nearly a year of hard labor.
    The same kind of practice was common in Russian and Chinese labour camps: arrest people on whatever charge; convict and sentence them in courts where they have no defence, then send them off to work without pay, without recourse.
    Those who have power always oppress those who have none - whatever name they call their brand of oppression.
     
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  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Black people in the southern US were routinely arrested and incarcerated for no other reason than to make them labor as if slaves. That was still happening, though becoming less common, through most of the 20th Century - including within the living memory of most adults when Nixon was formulating the Southern Strategy used by every Republican Presidential candidate since.

    US Steel in Alabama, for example, at the turn of the century, would actually place orders with local law enforcement and judiciary when they needed more labor. The procedure was apparently similar to that used by the British to man their warships in the 1800s - gangs of government-employed armed men would "press" Irish and other hostile colonized people off the streets, and the courts would sentence them to labor as sailors - in the US of course the expenses of security were greater (fences instead of ocean as moat), but so was the payoff.
     
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  9. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,434
    Police: "There's a forest fire coming this way which will wipe out your house, you need to evacuate immediately!"
    Vociferous: "Hey, it's a free country, you don't tell me what to do!"

    Vociferous is all about putting the cost of dollars ahead of the cost of human lives. A true Trump supporter. What happens when it hits his family or friends? No problem, he won't flinch when his families members are in the hospital on their last breath while he tightens his wallet on testing them.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,350
    Speculation is not really necessary - we have the record of how Trump did it.
    So one way would be the way Trump did it, and is still doing it.
    But you already know about that, right?
    If you are interested in the other ways it could have been done, perhaps a thread on the topic would be in order.
    - - - -
    The concept of the consenting adult has always been beyond the intellectual grasp of the American rightwing authoritarian.
    Nobody prevented anyone from leaving the United States - except the slaveowners of the Confederacy, who prevented their slaves from leaving even their plantations.
    All the non-indentured white men in the US in 1860 were free to leave at will, and go anywhere that would have them.

    Meanwhile none of the slaves were even free to stay, until after the slaveowners had been either killed or deprived of their property at gunpoint.

    The slaveowners could have left at any time, but they insisted on taking all the land and water and wildlife and infrastructure and slaves with them - as if ownership implied totalitarian control.
    - - - - -
    Only if Trump has done something political that any and every honest human being would like, and they refuse to like it.
    But since Trump has not done anything of that kind, where's the pretense?
     
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    With this particular poster, I don't think that's a safe assumption. The frequent, and occasionally somewhat surprising, glaring deficits in his knowledge base suggest (to me, at least) that he's not posting from prior knowledge, but rather that he's picking this stuff up as he goes along, from a selection of right-wing websites. His incessant over-reliance upon slander, i.e., leftists this, leftists that, also strongly suggest a considerable lack.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    All houses matter.
    Of course he will. He will immediately blame Obama.
     
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  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    protective tariffs
     
  14. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    If that's a Jeopardy answer, I'm not ringing in.
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I'm wondering what Confederacy defenders would be saying if their forefathers had fought over the right to rape little children? Let's make some more statues to commemorate them? Yeah protective tariffs were the real threat, not losing all the free labour powering their number one industry.

    Derp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    dude 4 states literally wrote addresses explicitly saying they seceded to keep slavery: Texas, South Carolina, Georgia, and Mississippi
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's not in the form of a meaningful question (it would have to make its presumptions clear, and even these guys can see where that would lead).
    More than that.
    No Confederate State disavowed slavery, favored abolition, or voted to keep a guarantee of protection for slavery out of the Confederate Constitution (it was the major difference between the US Constitution and the Confederate Constitution).

    The Confederacy harbored political differences regarding tariffs, industrialization, etc, but not slavery. Their opposition to abolition was unified and explicit and the major source of their political support. The threat of abolition was not only the major economic issue of the time - by far, by an order of magnitude - but the major social issue as well.
     
  18. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...e-south-seceded/2011/01/03/ABHr6jD_story.html

    South Carolina wanted to leave over tariffs between 1831 and 1833, no one else joined in and they backed down. By 1860 tariffs were the lowest since 1816, and the tariff laws had been written by southern politicians. This is why some people deserve to have their guns taken away, it's not for fucking self defense and everyone knows that's a convenient lie they tell.
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    morrill tariff had passed the house and was held up temporarily in the senate.
    Lincoln was in favor of the tariff, and that won him the electoral votes of pennsylvania and new jersey.
    The south saw the handwriting on the wall, and gave up negotiating with the greedy northern industrialists.
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    And thus was born the Fellowship of the Ring, to defeat the resurrected Sauron in Washington D.C. backed by his greedy Yankee acolytes in New York, and to liberate the slaves from hurting themselves with talk of unnecessary freedoms.
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,577
    and thus save the Holy Economy
    amen
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Check this out and note who started it...

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...out-stone-mountains-150ft-confederate-carving

    Do you believe that slavery was not an issue ..just tariffs...what are your thoughts on the rock carving in the above link...a monument to Southern gentlemen?
    What do you think about the role of the KKK...conscientious objectors to unfair tariffs?
    Alex
     
  23. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    386
    Looking for an artist's opinion on a piece?

    I think he has gone silent now about comparing the '' main difference '' of southern slaves with that of employees.

    One wonders what goes through the minds of some artists.
    What kind of morality is influencing the movement of the brush.
    Here's a ''nice'' picture.. Guess who painted it? Clue, only had one ball.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintings_by_Adolf_Hitler
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020

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