The Confederate Flag

Nup, that's simply you making excuses to write of anything conflicting with your sky daddy. I accept scientific evidence and the theories they support including Abiogenesis. I reject the non scientific nonsense concerning myth and hear say...alrighty?

 

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*** ATTENTION *** to any Moderators following this Thread *** ATTENTION ***

First this Thread was derailed/hi-jacked by children who wanted the Thread to be about Racism...

Now the children have decided that it should be just another puerile playground argument about Religion...

Could a Moderator PLEASE STRAIGHTEN THIS OUT or SIMPLY MOVE IT TO THE CESSPOOL !!

Thanx in advance!

*** ATTENTION *** to any Moderators following this Thread *** ATTENTION ***

 

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The picture I Posted in the OP depicts a young man wearing a T-Shirt with an American Flag and the words: "America Love It or Leave It" written on it while holding a Flag symbolizing a Group that DID NOT "Love" America and indeed WANTED TO "Leave It".

Wait...
Oh Yeah...
I must confess to another Senior Moment (they seem to be happening more often!)
It slipped my mind that the children here have already turned this into The Puerile Pop-Science Forum

So, James R, any chance that you could give this Thread an Honorable Death and simply send it to the CESSPOOL?

 

No, you're clearly ignorant of what Southerners actually believe it to signify today. You're stuck in the regionally obsolete meaning of the Civil War. I couldn't imagine you being further out of touch.

Never said it was. As I've actually said, the current German flag was adopted during the Wiemar Republic (German Reich). Now we can debate how much the German Reich did or did not contribute to the rise of Nazi Germany, but historically one immediately preceded the other with, no doubt, some degree of causation.

What do you imagine you're correcting here? Where did I say anything at all about the original US flag? Nowhere, because it's a complete non sequitur.

And that's why you're completely ignorant of why a black man would fly a Confederate flag. You believe all these leftist dog whistle myths. That link was only to prove, as I said, what states still flew the Confederate flag. And way to cherry-pick it to suit your bias.

In a national survey in 2015 across all races, 57% of Americans had the opinion that the Confederate flag represented Southern pride rather than racism. A similar poll in 2000 had a nearly identical result of 59%. However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result: 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride. Conversely, 75% of Southern blacks said the flag symbolized racism.[40]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moder...derate_battle_flag#Public_opinion_(2011-2017)​

So even 25% of Southern blacks didn't see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism. Try reading more than what just confirms your bias.

Of course not. Quit erecting straw men.

It's been a symbol of the South for many generations, where significance has evolved over time. Again, like so many here, you seem completely out of touch with the reality. Just believing leftists because it suits your existing bias.

And I'm not even a Southerner, nor have any affinity for the Confederate flag myself. But freedom of expression (even that of black people) includes things I don't personally favor. I defend the right nonetheless.

 

Some people are racist dmoe...that's reality. I see a bloody flag carrying racist, probably religious red neck in your photo. What say you?

 

I must confess to another Senior Moment (they seem to be happening more often!)
It simply slipped my mind, paddoboy, that you children have already turned this into The Puerile Pop-Science Forum

 

The doors behind you kiddo!

 

No, you're demonstrably not aware. And not my problem if you take a publicly edited Wikipedia as gospel. I've already explained my purpose in citing it.

Let me clarify. You're stuck in the regionally obsolete meaning [for the Confederate flag] of the Civil War.

Then why did you say:

That sure sounded like you thought you were telling me something I didn't know. I assure you, you weren't, so don't pretend you know more about my own country than I do. I certainly don't make that presumption of you and your country.

What's the alternative? That you really think a black man flies a Confederate flag because he supports racism?

Again:

However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result: 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride. Conversely, 75% of Southern blacks said the flag symbolized racism.​

Let's see... 100-75. Yep. 25% of Southern blacks did not say the Confederate flag was a symbol of racism. Literally "from only the South". Try to read what you respond to.

Oh noes, it was only 21% who didn't say it was a symbol of racism and 24% who said it was a symbol of pride. That's a huge difference from 25% [sarcasm].

And? Again, it shouldn't be surprising that some black people have different opinions. Are you claiming their opinion are somehow wrong? If so, maybe you should go tell them.

Go read my post again. I did quote that poll. That's exactly where I got my Southern black numbers.

Like you, some black people believe that flag must still stand for slavery, and leftist myths of dog whistles fuel that. Again, do you really believe that a black man flying that flag is advocating slavery? That would be the case if claims of dog whistles were true. Or is it more likely that people just believe different things about it, and you can't tell which just by looking at them?

No one said anyone was unaware of its history. Meanings of things change. Again, are you saying black people wave that flag, "knowing that the message they are sending to black people is one of racism supremacy"?

I'm saying that a percentage of Southern whites and blacks both accept it as a symbol of regional pride. And if that's what you believe, why should you hide it? Are the sensitivities of others their personal responsibility? What if whites see BLM as racist? Does that mean those black people shouldn't display BLM signs? Of course not.

So what are you saying, James?

Again, you seem to be flirting with the notion that blacks who disagree with the majority of blacks are wrong or something. I get that you agree with the majority, but don't the minority opinions still have value? Certainly, you don't think they're inferior.

That's what the debate about flying the Confederate flag has always been about. Here I thought you at least knew that much. I guess you're more out of touch than I imagined.

No, reality just doesn't make it through your bubble.

 

And, slavery was a big part of that "southern pride and heritage", which is what the Confederates were fighting to maintain.

 

Down here in Texas in the 1970s, my ex-wife went to a high school whose mascot was "Johnny Reb". They were the Southwest Rebels! School flag was the confederate flag. School song was Dixie.

She couldn't understand why the black students who were bussed across town to come to her school were upset with that. After all, it was about "heritage not hate".
I couldn't believe that she didn't see the problem. And I am a southern descendant of slave owners...

I wonder if a high school in Munich named their team the Gestapo, complete with Nazi regalia, how well the "heritage not hate" line would fly.

 

I notice the KKK used the flag....that would be enough for any decent person to drop it.

I don't know what the South has to be proud about, when it all boils down it appears they started a civil war so they could keep their slaves and in that war thousands of men and woman died...and one must wonder how different the world would be today if the South won... would slavery be common place today and in such a different America one must wonder who it would have supported in WW2.

Alex

 

Still can't understand why a black man would wave a Confederate flag, huh?

 

You are entirely hopeless your begging for attention is embarrassing now get out of my way before I crush you..I get it you saw Jan getting a good crushing and now you want one...nice post now go play outside.

I can not understand why anyone has the need to wave any flag at all...people who run out carrying flags are to me very curious creatures.

And I certainly do not understand what the South has to be proud of..what..exactly what..and not that I get my morality from the bible but isn't pride a sin...why are they up themselves...they think starting a war where they fired first upon their fellow countrymen was somehow noble?
What does the South have other than a claim of going to war against their own country to keep their slaves, that is so wonderful?
Alex

 

And yet the same sort of hypocritical Idiots have the audacity to label others, Atheists, lefties, scientism followers, racists, and right off all criticism of their own disgusting, fanatical anti science stance with comments such as strawmen, non sequitur etc etc, particularly when said criticism has hit the nail on the head.
Which is why I checked out the meaning of the handle Vociferous [of which I was ignorant] when this evangelistic crusade first started.
Mick's probably right. He revels in this sort of attention, and wears the meaning of his handle like a badge of honour. Not much really that can be done, other then to hope that this sort of fanatical arrogance does not consume too many of today's youngsters just growing up.

 

Far enough. You don't understand anyone waving a flag, much less that particular example. Seems a pretty big gap in your understanding of your fellow man. You have no pride in your state, hometown, school, or anything else you've been a part of? I certainly hope you've felt a part of something larger than you at some point in your life.
Not sure why regional/home pride should have to take a backseat to a history no one alive participated in. And I'm pretty sure no one chose what symbol represented their region, they just used what was already there and recognize as such. The meaning of things evolves, even if some people don't want to let them. The South is a regional culture pretty distinct from the rest of the country. Just as some people are proud of being East or West coast.

 

Not s much interested in the discussion over why a black man might fly the Confederate flag, but this:

OK, so there are some Southerners who perceive the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern pride and heritage, and nothing more, so they wave it proudly. However, the overwhelming majority of their black neighbors perceive the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

Maybe it is my understanding of humans that explains my attitude.

Absolutely none.
And I am a hermit.
At the moment you are the only human I am interacting with apart from some others here.
You seem to be the only person I like and trust.

I like astronomy and that helps me feel that I am part of the universe and that my insignificance is beyond my comprehension no matter how hard I try ...but I think I understand insignificance better than most humans.

Exactly.

Why do folk need to feel proud?....low self esteem?

Pride causes all sorts of problems in my view.

Alex