the Crucifiction

[spidergoat]

I think there was a crucifixion of Jesus, that's about all we can say.

The story was told by the Romans so as to put more blame on the Jews and make Pilot out to be fair, when he was actually a cruel and vicious man.

What would happen if the crucifiction was proven untrue ?
Nothing, if your philosophy is based on the torture and death of one man, rather than his words, then you are blind.

 

[c7ityi_]

The crucifixion of "Christ" is also a spiritual one. Christ means our higher self, which we have crucified on the two beams of space and time. We have put our spirit, our life, into matter, so we have become united with our material bodies.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

You can buy a piece of the original cross on the internet. So many slivers of it have already been sold that one could rebuild the Spanish armada.

But if you already have one then could I interest you in a piece of Christ's foreskin?

 

[geeser]

I'd buy the whole thing, but have you got two, as two would be better for the resale value, pairs always sell well. or say jesus's and the twelve apostles foreskin's.
Wow! we all could be millionaires.

 

[Trilairian]

Greetings all
>Was there a crucifiction ?

There were many crucifictions. The cross seems to originate from the celtic cross as a symbol for the sun as it was based on an actual device used to make solar measurements up to 10 thousand years ago, but Romans did do some executions by human crusifixtion which I assume started as a form of human sacrifice to the sun god. As such it is interesting that the death of Jesus is typified by sacrifictial lambs in Christian tradition. Specifically you are refering to the crucifiction of Jesus. I am convinced that there was such a crucifiction as the weight of evidence all be it light is in favor of it.

>If so, who was actually crucified ?

Jesus is a transliteration of Yeshua. I think Yeshua or others down the line mixed the Yes from Yeshua with the us from Horus to form Yesus which is today said Jesus.

>If it wasn't Christ then how did the 'switch' occur ?

Christ actually comes from a title of Horus. Horus being the son of a dying rising god, Osiris, was a model for Jesus in the formation of the Christian religion. His titles such as that were then given to Yeshua.

>If it was, did he definately die ?

I find it fishy (pun) that he was said to be speared rather than receiving the traditional leg breaking to induce suffication under ones own weight. I can't help but imagine a theatrical retractive blade used in hoaxing a death.

>Is it possible he was drugged or something to induce a comatose-like state which would explain the ressurection
supposition

That wouldn't be inconsistent with the drink he is said to have received while on the cross.

>When the average time of death by crucifiction was days, why did Christ 'die' within hours ?

If he did die while on the cross I'd guess it was because he was speared after passing out.

>Are christians the only group that believe in the crucifiction ?

Probably most people believe in it. Its the ressurection most people aren't convinced of.

>What would happen if the crucifiction was proven untrue ?

Christians would ignore the proof and believe in it anyway.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

There is one thing that always bugged me about the crucifixion. Its a bit contradictory but here goes. While Christ was supposedly up there, near the end he asks God to forgive them for they know not what they do. Did that mean if it wasn't for Christ that God was going to unleash hurricane Yahweh (category 1 million) upon the Earth? The Calvary weather channel showed some bad stuff was on the way. Christians always say that Christ died for our sins and God had us do him in for that purpose. If God deliberately had his son killed so we could be forgiven for sinning then why would he not want to forgive us after we carried out His plan?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

There were many crucifictions. The cross seems to originate from the celtic cross as a symbol for the sun as it was based on an actual device used to make solar measurements up to 10 thousand years ago, but Romans did do some executions by human crusifixtion which I assume started as a form of human sacrifice to the sun god. As such it is interesting that the death of Jesus is typified by sacrifictial lambs in Christian tradition. Specifically you are refering to the crucifiction of Jesus. I am convinced that there was such a crucifiction as the weight of evidence all be it light is in favor of it.

*************
M*W: I think you're onto something. Tell us more about the "sun god" and "solar measurements."
*************

Jesus is a transliteration of Yeshua. I think Yeshua or others down the line mixed the Yes from Yeshua with the us from Horus to form Yesus which is today said Jesus. Christ actually comes from a title of Horus. Horus being the son of a dying rising god, Osiris, was a model for Jesus in the formation of the Christian religion. His titles such as that were then given to Yeshua.

*************
M*W: Yes, I've read this before. The myth is repeated several times in ancient literature.
*************

I find it fishy (pun) that he was said to be speared rather than receiving the traditional leg breaking to induce suffication under ones own weight. I can't help but imagine a theatrical retractive blade used in hoaxing a death.

*************
M*W: If he were dead and pierced, he would not bleed, so he was still alive, according to scripture.
*************

That wouldn't be inconsistent with the drink he is said to have received while on the cross.

*************
M*W: The drink he received on the cross was most likely something to cause him to pass out.
*************

If he did die while on the cross I'd guess it was because he was speared after passing out.

*************
M*W: Possibly, but I still think it was someone else standing in for Jesus, like Barabbas. Some even believe it's Simon the Cyrene.
*************

Probably most people believe in it. Its the ressurection most people aren't convinced of. Christians would ignore the proof and believe in it anyway.

*************
M*W: The truth of Jesus' crucifixion is fuzzy at best. He didn't die on the cross. Someone else stood in for him with Pilate's knowledge and approval. Pilate and Herod were somehow ancestors of Jesus and his mother. Oh, hell, what am I saying? Jesus didn't exist. The whole thing is malarky.

 

[Trilairian]

I think you're onto something. Tell us more about the "sun god" and "solar measurements."

You can find a descriptions of the workings of a Celtic cross device at
http://www.viewzone.com/crichton.html
Here is a picture of a working device:
<img src="http://www.viewzone.com/crichton3.jpg">
From http://www.crichtonmiller.com/real cross.htm :
"The oldest painted and inscribed rock images depicting the wheel cross design date back to 10,000 BC"
The symbol for the Celtic cross seems to have morphed into three different routs. Seems theres a limit on pictures so I'll have to split the post to show them all.

 

[Trilairian]

1:to schwastica
<img border="0" src="http://www.stirene.org/images/Occult%20Images/quartered.gif" width="65" height="64">
<img border="0" src="http://www.stirene.org/images/Occult%20Images/swastiga2.GIF" width="59" height="57">
<img border="0" src="http://www.stirene.org/images/Occult%20Images/swastiga1.JPG" width="50" height="50">

 

[Trilairian]

2:to anch to female
<img src="http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/images/ankh.h1.gif" width="100" height="177" alt="wpe1.gif (2582 bytes)" align="left" hspace="5">
<img border="0" src="http://www.oneposter.com/UserData/Poster/Poster_8112.jpg" width="311" height="311">
3:to crucifixes
I'll have to scan latter images I have of stone crucifixes. If I remember right they date back almost 5000 BC.
Also:
<img src="http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/q/D/2/quetzalcoatl.jpg" border="0">
I don't know whether the stone cricifixes are record of human sacrifice or inspiration for it, but I do think this is an indication of the practice actually being a sacrifice and not just an execution. The latter is a depiction of the Aztec solar deity Quetzalcoatl. (Now that one is a stumper. But, Mormons don't get your hopes up as I already disproved Mormonism here.)

Possibly, but I still think it was someone else standing in for Jesus, like Barabbas....Oh, hell, what am I saying? Jesus didn't exist.

Huh? I take it one of these contradictory statements is your opinion and the other is a joke. I just can't tell which is which.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

2:to anch to female
<img src="http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/images/ankh.h1.gif" width="100" height="177" alt="wpe1.gif (2582 bytes)" align="left" hspace="5">
<img border="0" src="http://www.oneposter.com/UserData/Poster/Poster_8112.jpg" width="311" height="311">
3:to crucifixes
I'll have to scan latter images I have of stone crucifixes. If I remember right they date back almost 5000 BC.
Also:
<img src="http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/q/D/2/quetzalcoatl.jpg" border="0">
I don't know whether the stone cricifixes are record of human sacrifice or inspiration for it, but I do think this is an indication of the practice actually being a sacrifice and not just an execution. The latter is a depiction of the Aztec solar deity Quetzalcoatl. (Now that one is a stumper. But, Mormons don't get your hopes up as I already disproved Mormonism here.)
Huh? I take it one of these contradictory statements is your opinion and the other is a joke. I just can't tell which is which.

*************
M*W: No yokes intended. Jesus didn't exist and he was replaced by Bar Abbas (Son of the Father) on the cross. Jesus was nothing more than the anthropomorphism of the Sun.

 

[Trilairian]

I can't seem to fine the pictures of the anchient crucifixes I was looking for. Perhps someone else can find pictures of what I was talking about somewhere on line. The are little stone humanoid statues that form the cross at the top and I think were found in africa.

*************
M*W: No yokes intended. Jesus didn't exist and he was replaced by Bar Abbas (Son of the Father) on the cross. Jesus was nothing more than the anthropomorphism of the Sun.

I've done some reading on that now and found two reasonable ideas on how the original story went. According to the first there were multiple people at the time claiming to be Messiahs. Pilate had two Jesus named Messiah types in jail. One was Jesus that the people called christ and is the modern religious figure and the other was a Jesus that also called himself God's son. The other Jesus that called himself God's son had according to the story led an insurrection against the Romans and was up for crucifixion for the Roman deaths involved as an enemy to the state. Pilate asked the people which he should release, Jesus who they called christ or the other Jesus son of God who he called a murderer and a thief. They called to release the insurrectionist and Jesus who they called christ was crucified in his stead. The name Jesus was latter removed from Bar-abbas in copies or translations. The second was that according to the original story the multitudes that loved Jesus gathered to demand his release. Pilate simply refused. The story was later altered to shift the blame for the execution from the Romans to the Jews.

 

[duendy]

one of the ancinet folknnames for te sacred mushroom was the 'little cross'.

the closest symbol is the celtic cross. its shape reminiscent of the mushroom

you eat said mushroom

ACTUAL 'Dreamtime' of Myth cxomes aLIVE

no more is there any literalism....oh no. now we face our deep selves, and deep communion with Nature

oh yes

 

[bconn29]

It is possible that there was a man named Jesus that ran around during this time period pissing people off with his philosophy. Killing someone because they pissed off the authorities has instances throughout history. Previous posts included Josephus, it seems that he had a list of people that claimed they were messiahs and were crucified. There were all kinds of people saying they were "god" and/or the messiah, there still are. It's probable that there was a crucifixion, was he god? nah. Paul was a marketing genius, that used alot of bad feelings people had about the romans to help his cockamamie religion take hold.

I also saw an interesting documentary about the crucifixion, in it they actually re-created the crucifixion, to the best of their abilities. They put forth the theory that it was not actually a cross but a post they nailed him to. They then hung somebody by ropes from this post hands stretched above. After about 20 mins the hearth rate was much higher and blood pressure starting to raise as well. They kept the guy up there until it became evident that his body was close to collapse. He was only up there for about 2 hours or so. They also said they had documentation to support their theory that it was a post used. They surmised that this helped proved the story that he died quickly

 

[Trilairian]

If he was "crusified" on a post rather than on an actual cross that would indicate that people were indeed writting him in as the sun god which was represented by a crusafixion at least since Krishna rather than the BC crosses associated with the deity being in any way prophetic.

 

[bconn29]

If he was "crusified" on a post rather than on an actual cross that would indicate that people were indeed writting him in as the sun god which was represented by a crusafixion at least since Krishna rather than the BC crosses associated with the deity being in any way prophetic.

What they were saying is that it was more likely the Romans in this are used a post for crucifixions as it was a better engineering practice than a cross. I'm not sure if I understand what you are getting at with your post. Are you saying this is further evidence that the "christ" idea IS based on the sun god? Your post was a little unclear and I am not that bright.

 

[Trilairian]

What they were saying is that it was more likely the Romans in this are used a post for crucifixions as it was a better engineering practice than a cross. I'm not sure if I understand what you are getting at with your post. Are you saying this is further evidence that the "christ" idea IS based on the sun god? Your post was a little unclear and I am not that bright.

I think they did use crosses, not that it was good engineering, but as a tradition that started as representative of the sun god. If he was "crucified" on a post and not a cross, I am saying that the crosses and crucifixes that predate Jesus can not then be taken as prophetic evidence for Christianity. It would indicate that the Jesus story was altered to make him fit more in line with the paagan crucified god traditions. However, I do think he was actually crucified: Bad engineering is sometimes done even today when art or religious symbology in embedded into construction. Just consider Europe's upside down pyramid for example.

 

[bconn29]

I think they did use crosses, not that it was good engineering, but as a tradition that started as representative of the sun god. If he was "crucified" on a post and not a cross, I am saying that the crosses and crucifixes that predate Jesus can not then be taken as prophetic evidence for Christianity. It would indicate that the Jesus story was altered to make him fit more in line with the paagan crucified god traditions. However, I do think he was actually crucified: Bad engineering is sometimes done even today when art or religious symbology in embedded into construction. Just consider Europe's upside down pyramid for example.

Ok I understand what your saying, This is just what this one documentary said, they said they had some documentation to back it up. I just found it interesting if true, and that it would explain alot about his quicker than usual death.

Any evidence for christianity is so convulluted and misconceived at this point it is almost impossible to say what is true. Kinda sux. My suspicion is that there WAS a guy named "Jesus" he pissed off the romans and jews and was crucified. Beyond that I don't know. They could have slipped him a "mickey" that killed him early and brought him back to life. He also could have died up there and they trotted out some other bearded guy that looked like him. How many bearded jews were there back than? Probably lots!

 

[Qorl]

It's happening again
Anyway's I still believe in my faith, even I wrote some silly statements!
Qorl

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The barbaric tradition of wearing an instrument of death and torture around a neck represents one relic left over from the crucifixion(why is that spelled with an 'x', has Christianity even influenced the spelling of the word?). Did you ever take a good look at the crucufix the pope waves around. That thing is a weapon, both physical and psychological. Gruesome, but signifying a lot of the brutality associated with the doctrine.