truestory, Sorry, it's hard to keep tabs on all of your plentiful exploits. Now that you mention it, I do recall that particular "true story" as well. I still think you should see a psychiatrist.
Hah, Boris... I can understand where you are coming from. "You're crazy" is the usual knee-jerk reaction from others to such experiences. That's the same reaction my husband "used to" have. Now that we are in our 28th year of marriage and he has seen the cause and effect of my "experiences" although he can't comprehend for sure how they happen, he tells others that he no longer thinks I'm crazy. Take for example one New Year's Eve celebration more than twenty years ago. A couple that was at our table had a loud disagreement which caused an uncomfortable "scene" for others. The husband finally walked out of the ballroom and others basically said, 'O.K... He's gone, it's over, let's have a good time!' Instead, I "heard," yes Boris, "heard" a voice which said, "He's getting a knife." I told my husband, "He's not leaving... he's just going to get a knife!" My husband, of course, said, "WHAT???!!! You're CRAZY!!!" The man returned around 15 minutes later and sat down at the table, opposite his wife, next to me and my husband. I pleaded with my husband not to take his eyes off of the man. My husband obliged, but, after about 10 minutes of the man behaving rationally, my husband's attention was diverted to a discussion on the edge of the dance-floor. My husband left to go join in the conversation with his friends. With no other males at the table, the cowardly man pulled a knife out from under his sleeve, lifted it over his head, yelling "AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!" and started to lunge across the table at his wife with the knife. Only because I had earlier "heard the voice" was I able to be quick enough to grab his hand and elbow him in the ribs so that he fell backwards over his chair, letting the knife slip out of his hands. My husband, who had turned when he heard the man yelling, and saw what transpired after that said, "HOW DID YOU KNOW???!!! I'm so sorry!!!"
Wow, truestory, you have lived an incredibly interesting life! Did you ever talk to that other little boy that was there with you? Did this experience have any effect on your faith - make it stronger, or weaker? What a night! I would have been terrified.
SkyeBlue, If you are talking about the experience that I had when I was five... No, I never spoke with the boy about it and I never thought about it in terms of faith... although I didn't think about it too much growing up, I just thought it was one of those experiences that aren't talked about much... Now, I really don't see it as being "different"... I don't dwell on it. I just see it as another life experience, albeit with other-than-human beings...
Searcher, In this day and age, I believe that the term "alien" is relative to one's definition, based on their experiences. If you are asking me if I believe that Jesus was a member of the foreign species (aliens)which abducted me then, my answer is no. If you are asking me if I believe that Jesus is "alien" in the sense that he originated from God who dwells physically in another (foreign) realm, then my answer is possibly, yes. In other words, my answer is relative and depends on whether you and I are on the same plane, so to speak... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Truestory, I don't mean alien as in a foreign species, exactly. I believe his father is of the same species that first put mankind here on this earth, and we came from them in some way (as clones or hybrids). Jesus was always referring to his "father in heaven", whose craft was often seen surrounded by some sort of cloud. I just want to know the true nature of those we worshipped as gods in the old days. Which ones did we come from and why did they put us here? What is their interest in us now? Do they want to protect us or destroy us? And I don't want canned answers that really don't explain anything to my satisfaction, which is all I get from the churches.
Searcher, I don't believe that God is what we contemporarily consider a "space" alien in need of a craft... and I am not familiar with such references made by Jesus. Could you point me in that direction? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Searcher - To clarify - you are thinking that Mary was artificially inseminated with some kind of clone/hybrid that was Jesus? Interesting idea, don't think I've heard that one yet. That would explain the virgin birth thing quite handily, though. But what interest would aliens have in creating/furthering this religion? What would they have to gain? Unless they share the same God and wanted to spread the word? In other words, maybe they aren't a God in themselves, but they believe in God and wanted to share? Hmmm, lots of food for thought there.
Yes, definitely a mouthful of food for thought. Or, then there's the aetheist/alien one too. A quick thought: Heaven and Hell? Judgement? Lost souls of those who do not believe? How clever. Well, it's not all that clever but a nice try. Too bad it's not working.
Truestory, I assume that you meant you hadn't seen any references Jesus made to the "cloud" his father in heaven travelled in, as he made too many references to his "father in heaven" for a bible scholar such as yourself to miss. I'm sure you remember the "cloud" that guided the Hebrew slaves out of Egypt? Exodus 13:21,22 tells us: 21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people. Exodus 14:19,20 continues the story: 19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: 20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night. Following the parting of the Red Sea, Exodus 14:24,25 tells us: 24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians. 25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians. It goes on from there to describe how the Lord drowned the pursuing Egyptians. Exodus 33:9-11 mentions the cloud again: 9 And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the LORD talked with Moses. 10 And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door. 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. I'm sure you've read about the transfiguration account in Matthew 17:1-17? That's the same one that mentions Jesus hanging out with Moses and Elias on a mountain. Verse 5 is especially interesting to me: 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Paul gives us some interesting news in 1 Corinthians 10:1-4: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
SkyeBlue, I'm sorry if I confused you, but my idea is that we are clones or hybrids of this species that we resemble, and Mary was artificially inseminated by the highest in command. I first began to consider this possiblity many years ago, when I read the account of Jesus's birth in chapter 2 of the book of Matthew. Verse 2 tells us about how the wise men had seen the star in the east and came looking for the Christ child. After they left King Herod to go find the child, the star that had been in the east went before them and led them to the child, where it hovered above (see verse 9). I'm not at all certain what the whole purpose of this experiment is, but it seems clear enough that if we want to live eternally, we had better not ask too many questions. Only those who believe like a small child are supposed to make it to "heaven" - or so we're told. The $64,000 question is, what happens next?
Searcher, Did I hear the bubbling of a bong? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It's human nature to ask questions! That's how we learn, and the only reason why you have come to this conclusion. At first glance theorys come to us with out any questions, but after examination you will find an underling question you have had for a long time but have put aside for lack of an ready answer. If there were no questions left to be answered life would be prety boring. If asking questions is a sin that will eject my from heaven then screw them! ------------------ The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world -Max Born [This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 02, 1999).]
Searcher, What I meant was that I had not seen any references to a "craft"... Per your examples, and others... "Cloud" - yes. "Craft" - no. [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 03, 1999).]
Truestory, Sorry I don't have enough time for direct bible quotes in the morning before I leave for work, but I trust you have a bible and can look up the following for yourself: 2 Kings 2:1-12 (chariot of fire, whirlwind) Ezekiel 1:1-28 (UFO moving as fast as lightning, with wings and retractable landing gear) I'll be back...
This is fascinating, Searcher! I never thought about it, but you are making a compelling argument. Truestory - here's a way to tell me & Searcher apart - I'm not nearly so familliar with the bible! I ought to pick up a copy somewhere & try to read it again.
Searcher, Things seem to be getting a bit twisted here. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Your original statement was: Again, I see no such references made to such a "craft" by "Jesus"... (That is not to say that there are none). Can you show some support to your claim that "Jesus" was "always" indicating that his "father in heaven" owned a "craft"...??? If I'm not mistaken, the verses you refer to above (Kings, Ezekiel) were from the Old Testament and reflect the ancient prophetic writers' literary styles. I would caution you not to interpret such styles "literally". [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 03, 1999).]
Truestory, I think you misread my post just a little. For the purpose of clarification, the sentence you are quoting could rewritten as two separate sentences, as follows: 1) Jesus was always referring to his "father in heaven". 2) The craft in which his father flew about the heavens was often seen surrounded by some sort of cloud. I never said that Jesus called whatever his father rode in a "craft", my point was that he referred to God as his father in heaven ("heaven" is just another word for sky). Neither did I say that the people who saw the "cloud" called it a craft. I am simply drawing my own conclusions based on the clues that are there. And if God doesn't need a vehicle, why does he need a cloud? As for the literary styles of the prophets, I would certainly expect them to use whatever words they had at their disposal to describe objects and events that are beyond the scope of their knowledge and experience. Allow me to quote 2 Kings 2:11,12: 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. Today we would just say that Elijah was abducted by a UFO - although it lacks the literary style of the Old Testament prophets, the meaning is the same.
SkyeBlue, For me, the Bible is an endlessly fascinating book. It is filled with mystery, and is like a puzzle just waiting to be solved. I think it would be much better to be able to understand the original languages the Bible was written in, but I do my best with what I have. The book of Ezekiel is especially intriguing. There is too much from Ezekiel to try to include here, but I would like to quote a couple of verses from chapter 1: 4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. The description that follows contains quite a bit of confusing detail, but it mentions wheels and wings, and states that when the creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up too. I would definitely suggest picking up a bible and reading it for yourself. It will give you much to think about!
I have read parts of the bible, but it is so confusing to me! I get lost just trying to figure out which version is which... I have been planning for some time to pick up the Bible & the Koran and see what they have to offer. Guess I should get off my duff! I have been thinking of taking a religious study course over at the local JC, just to get my feet wet. Religion is fascinating to me - I can't say that I believe it, but it has affected so many people that I definitely want to know what they are following. I think religion is heavily linked to psychology - my feeling is that a lot of religious 'facts' are projections of what our ancestors wished and thought. Studying their beliefs (and contemporary man's beliefs) is a great way to get into someone else's head. And a history lesson to boot! I love this forum - it's proving to be quite educational for me. By the way - truestory - how do you get those smiley faces into the body of your post? I can't figure it out.
Good Morning SkyeBlue Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Just make a smiley face with your keyboard (colon and end-parenthesis). Once you post, it will automatically convert to Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! !!!
