The Durupinar Noah's Ark Site

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Jul 12, 2021.

  1. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I have to admit, Bw/S, sometimes you really crack me up. It breaks up the monotony.
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    That's not correct: not demonstrating an ability on demand does not falsify that the person has the capability, or has done it in the past.
    The power of prayer is actually unfalsifiable. As is God.
     
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  5. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    If Quantum Mechanics controls our thoughts then our thoughts would have to be indeterminate.

    And therefore untrustworthy.
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    And so, we should pray to God all the time to give us the wisdom.
     
  8. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Yes Naturalism is indeed archaic, just as you said.

    Science cannot be used to prove Naturalism, such an experiment has never even been attempted.

    Again, the Scientifically known and proven, cause and affect limitations at the scale of our brain chemistry and neurological pathways prove you have no free will. (See Sam Harris)

    And Quantum Mechanics applied to our brain makes your thoughts indeterminate and untrustworthy.

    Cutting off the legs of Reason itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  9. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    That is what I do. But do as you wish, you are free.
     
  10. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    The processes of the brain have evolved to to think in terms of macro outcomes.
    Our bodies have evolved from processes that work on a scale after the averaging out of quantum uncertainly.
    The same for plants, they turn to follow the sun without thinking, where is the quantum uncertainty there?
    I know I can put six small eggs in an egg box made for six small eggs, where is the quantum uncertainly there?
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Does it work?

     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    True. I guess it would be more accurate to say that no experiment has ever demonstrated the existence of the supernatural.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Natural philosophy is the archaic term for science, yes.
    Natural philosophy IS science.
    You just contradicted yourself.

    Either we have no free will and everything is predetermined, or things are NOT predetermined and thus free will is possible. You can't have it both ways.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Duh. Of course our thoughts are untrustworthy.
     
  15. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Or we actually do have free will, because we all have supernatural minds, spirits, or souls. And are not strictly limited by either Newtonian or Quantum mechanisms.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    We've covered this. If God is omniscient, and knows what you will do, you have no free will to do anything else.
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    "I can't swim and I'm drowning"

    "Here, hold onto this rock from Durupinar----it'll save you"
     
    candy and sideshowbob like this.
  18. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    God simply knows what my free will decisions will be.
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Then you are not free to make any other decisions. Simple.
     
  20. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Please verify the following two quotes for yourself before accepting them...

    (Christian Sources sometimes take quotes and use them unfairly out of context, and I do not want to do that out of my own ignorance.)

    David Chalmers
    Philosopher and Cognitive Scientist

    “Consciousness experience is at once the most familiar thing in the world and the most mysterious. There is nothing we know about more directly than consciousness, but it is far from clear how to reconcile it with everything else we know. Why does it exist? What does it do? How could it possibly arise from lumpy grey matter?”

    Thomas Nagel
    Naturalistic Philosopher

    “So long as the mental is irreducible to the physical, the appearance of conscious physical organisms is left unexplained by naturalistic account of the familiar type. On a purely materialist understanding of biology, consciousness would have to be regarded as a tremendous and inexplicable extra brute fact about the world.”

    SetiAlpha6

    “The existence of consciousness is currently explained by the existence of the Supernatural.”
     
  21. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think we have free will, or are our thoughts just the results of an unending chain of bio-chemical reactions?
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Chemical reactions are probabilistic, not deterministic.
     
  23. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, then are you saying that our thoughts are all probabilistic as well?

    How could a bio-chemical probabilistic mind ever truly be conscious? And how are we able to reason correctly with probabilistic thoughts?

    How could I control my thoughts if they are probabilistically caused?

    My thoughts would just happen on the basis of some bio-chemical probability, right?

    If so, why should I trust them?

    Wouldn’t my thoughts even be predetermined to be probabilistic, without any willful control at all on my part?

    How is reason itself not destroyed?
     

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