The Earth is flat

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Saint, May 24, 2021.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,576
    Still, there are people believe the Earth is flat,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_beliefs

    They said some kinds of intelligence makes us believe what we see the space is sphere through light bending.
    Make us thought that the universe is infinite or too big to travel to the edge, actually it is not.
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Slow day, over there in Malaysia, is it?

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  5. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn't make much sense in a simulated reality context, since if the parsimony protocol of the computer demiurge is to only create the appearance that the Earth is spherical, and the universe is vast, then that would still effectively be what the situation was rule-wise. Due to the inhabitants having no prior level correlates in a radically different world.

    But sounds derivatively going the "evil demon" route of Descartes. In which deceived observers actually reside in an archetypal world that does conform to the ancient Flat Earth scenario which the Bible dabbles in. Philip K Dick wandered off into a version of that, cut off at a New Testament era Roman Empire (quote below).

    Of course, most of the Flat Earthers who take their meds regularly or don't need them are probably just contrarians. Their very mindset or thought orientation revolves around going against the grain of authority or the majority -- no matter how unrealistic, ridiculous, or futile. Kind of like the daughter who selects the worst boyfriend imaginable to rebel against her parents, or an "Antifa umbrella" activist youth who joins a communist clique to provoke a similar reaction. Except with Flat Earth, the iconoclastic attitude hangs around deep into adulthood and senior status.

    Or maybe there's a political parody angle for some, like certain Satanism sects (though unlikely).

    Philip K. Dick: Parmenides would be proud of me. I have gazed at a constantly changing world and declared that underneath it lies the eternal, the unchanging, the absolutely real. but how has this come about? If the real time is circa A.D. 50, then why do we see A.D. 1978? And if we are really living in the Roman Empire, somewhere in Syria, why do we see the United States?

    During the Middle Ages, a curious theory arose, which I will now present to you for what it is worth. It is the theory that the Evil One·Satan·is the "Ape of God." That he creates spurious imitations of creation, of God's authentic creation, and then interpolates them for that authentic creation. Does this odd theory help explain my experience? Are we to believe that we are occluded, that we are deceived, that it is not 1978 but A.D. 50... and Satan has spun a counterfeit reality to wither our faith in the return of Christ?

    I can just picture myself being examined by a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist says, "What year is it?" And I reply, "A.D. 50." The psychiatrist blinks and then asks, "And where are you?" I reply, "In Judaea." "Where the heck is that?" the psychiatrist asks. "It's part of the Roman Empire," I would have to answer. "Do you know who is President?" the psychiatrist would ask, and I would answer, "The Procurator Felix." "You're pretty sure about this?" the psychiatrist would ask, meanwhile giving a covert signal to two very large psych techs. "Yep," I'd reply. "Unless Felix has stepped down and had been replaced by the Procurator Festus. You see, Saint Paul was held by Felix" "Who told you all this?" the psychiatrist would break in, irritably, and I would reply, "The Holy Spirit." And after that I'd be in the rubber room, inside gazing out, and knowing exactly how come I was there.

    But somehow that biblical material snared my unconscious and crept into my novel, and equally true, for some reason in 1978 I relived a scene which I described back in 1970. What I am saying is this: There is internal evidence in at least one of my novels that another reality, an unchanging one, exactly as Parmenides and Plato suspected, underlies the visible phenomenal world of change, and somehow, in some way, perhaps to our surprise, we can cut through to it. Or rather, a mysterious Spirit can put us in touch with it, if it wishes us to see this permanent other landscape. Time passes, thousands of years pass, but at the same instant that we see this contemporary world, the ancient world, the world of the Bible, is concealed beneath it, still there and still real. Eternally so.
    --How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later​
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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  8. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    I think the light bending people are right. Just mislead in their way of accomplishing anything from a theoretical fact.
     
  9. rrram2 Alpaca Farmer Registered Senior Member

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    its not flat, but be sure it is not a big spinning ball, spinning through space, such a silly notion

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  10. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    I believe the earth is not a globe spinning through space, also I do not believe Sun is 93 million miles or Moon is 230K miles. I say that because I got awakened during 2017 when you could research on Youtube about flat earth and would get accurate search results about channels like Eric Dubay, Rob Skiba, ODD, DITRH, Globebusters, Jeranism etc. Channels that would discuss scientific reasons why the earth was flat and not a globe. Now if you type in flat earth you will get a bunch of videos promoting debunking of the flat earth theory. There are a few good Eddie Bravo videos on youtube that ask the right questions about flat earth. Again if you are into researching and not just mocking a theory then look into all these channels. And yes the flat earth society is a fake society made to make all flat earthers look silly so you can discount that society right away.
     
  11. Guru Registered Senior Member

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  12. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    1,843
    If it is a flat earth why we go downhill?

    Why we have water?
     
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  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Can you please briefly describe the best two pieces of evidence for why the world is flat, according to you?
    How could you tell they were accurate/reliable?
    Have you looked into any of the "debunking" arguments? Can you explain why those are flawed?
    How do you know it's a fake society?

    How do you know there's a conspiracy to make flat-earthers like yourself look silly, and not that there's a conspiracy to feed you misleading information to promote a lie about a flat earth?
     
  14. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    311
    1. We can see to far - on a curved earth we would not be able to see far with high powered binoculars
    2. Have not see water curve based on the curvature formula
    3. Vacuum next to high pressured cannot be proven in a lab or show in nature
    4. Polaris never moves from its position.
    5. Flight paths makes more sense on a flat earth map than a globe map
    6. Not a single picture produced by Nasa of earth or planets are actual pictures all of them are photoshopped.

    I could tell by the results Google used to provide, also after their response to the government they started demonetizing genuine flat earth channels, many were deleted, they started a campaign of tagging wikipedia link under those channels. You will not see that under more weird conspiracy theory on YT. There was a time pre 2017 where you could type in moon landing hoax and you would get the non censored videos and could research on why people feel Moon landing were hoax. Similarly I could look at the videos supporting flat earth theory before - now you can try and type in the exact video name supporting flat earth and you would still not receive the results you are looking for. Flat earth was one of the highest search phrase on Google and then it was killed over night by google. There is also a video Google CEO promising to congress that they will target flat earth on their search back in 2017 and bang they killed the movement online in next 6 months.


    Yes I have - in fact have spend many hours over the years going thru the arguments. There is no way to prove earth is revolving / spinning. No one has been able to show proof how a low pressure vacuum can exist next to high pressure. How does water curve on a planet when you are not able to show it in any experiment. There is an open challenge by David Weiss and he offers 2 Bitcoins if you can prove earth is a spinning globe - have not been claimed.


    It is not accepted by the mainstream Flat earthers - the society believes in stuff like disc floating in space and disc moving up at the speed of 9.8 M/sec - these are not the model used by flat earthers.


    Well, there was a time when UFO believers were ridiculed and it went on for half a century - now we have Pentagon release declassified docs supporting the phenomenon. You can now see politicians use "Flat earth" to equate foolish beliefs - from bnoth sides of the aisle.
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,269

    there is still a lot of people who believe homosexuality & same sex marriage is wrong & who also think same sex couples having children & being parents is wrong.

    while you enjoy your space age latest new cell phone
    try & remember that the vast majority of the world is still culturally & intellectually living in the stone ages

    you will probably find that all flat earth believers are also culturally living in the dark ages & believe homosexuality & same sex couples is wrong.
     
  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    1,843
    People don't seem to understand that Einstein himself ,in his theory of General Relativity discovered that the world is LOCALLY FLAT.

    If it is flat in Washington then it is also flat in Madrid,Helsinki,Teipei etc.

    So it is ,by extension flat everywhere.

    So ,yes the world is flat .

    But not square.That would just be silly (GR requires a continuous manifold)
     
  17. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,712
    1) this makes very little actual sense. I can see the moon with a pair of binoculars. The argument isn't relevant--at all.
    2) I have. If you get high enough, say up a mountain and it's near the sea, the horizon is curved. That's the horizon of the sea or ocean you can see out there.
    3) What that has to do with curvature, or anything, is hard to see.
    4) the star polaris is known to be orbiting the galactic centre. So is the sun. So both are moving even if it seems like they aren't.
    5) No, they don't. That's an example of wishful thinking. Or of complete misunderstanding.
    6) And so are all those satellite images. It's why companies and governments invest billions in rocket launches--so they can post fake images on youtube! Of course.
     
  18. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    311

    Please see the video I have shared before you comment.
    Nobody has seen water curve BTW.
     
  19. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Please explain this image:

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    The pylons look like they get smaller because of the perspective.
    Why isn't the line straight? Why does the line of pylons look like it curves over the horizon?

    How would the builders of this bit of engineering, arrange it so it's a fake?
    Is that what they have to do anytime they build a set of pylons that stretches over the horizon, y'know, so everyone believes the earth is curved?

    I mean, except for those in the know, such as yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  20. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

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    435
    You didn't word that very well, but I know the poor argument, things are visible beyond what flat earthers claim because of a basic thing called refraction.

    Where would you see this? At sea level it's something like 32 feet over an 8 mile span. You start seeing curvature when you get up to 10,000 feet and beyond. Mathematics demonstrates this perfectly.

    A very dumb claim. The atmosphere gradually drops off on pressure the higher it gets, gravity holds it in place, the weight above creates pressure down below. It just diminishes in a progressive tail off to vacuum. Explained perfectly with science.

    It kind of does a little, but the North star is directly above the tilt axis on which the planet spins, that is why it doesn't move. The stars rotate in different directions by hemisphere and that doesn't help your case at all. A fixed Polaris is irrelevant to a flat earth.

    Utter provable cobblers. Sydney to Africa does not cross over Asia, the shortest route on the crazy flat earth "map". Australia is also 5,000 miles across on it. A complete joke.

    That's just you believing crap - Apollo has a hundred plus pictures of Earth and the back of the Moon. The ISS has thousands of them.

    Hmmm, well maybe Google thought people would like to see how the bullshit was debunked rather than read about the dumbest conspiracy in history.

    Its' been proven by space craft in orbit. Foucault proved it:
    Foucault's Pendulum (brown.edu)

    Gyroscope developed that can detect it:
    Optical gyroscope on a chip can detect Earth’s rotation – Physics World

    Strawman answered above.

    Gravity. If you splash water it falls down. All the water falls down at once curving around the centre of mass.

    Yeah, because historically crazy people with money always pay out and always offer sound counter argument!

    The sun sets. End of thread. Explain why things fall at the same acceleration no matter where they are or what elevation. Don't say density because then I say why does Mexico City still have the same high jump record!

    UFO believers who claim they are aliens are still mainly laughed at. All Pentagon films show is unidentified somethings on blurry old recordings.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    37,310
    Guru:

    This brief and confused list is your best evidence for the flat earth? You haven't even attempted to explain your best two, which is all I asked you for. Briefly:

    1. I don't understand what you mean, from what you have written. You'll need to explain.
    2. I don't know what curvature formula you're talking about. Without details, this is useless.
    3. What does "vacuum next to high pressured" have to do with the shape of the earth? Explain.
    4. Do you mean it never appears to move, as seen from the ground on Earth, or that the star itself has no proper motion through space? In fact, both claims are false. Polaris is not directly aligned with the north pole, so its apparent motion is a small circle as the Earth rotates. The star itself also has a proper motion. So, this doesn't support your claim at all.
    5. I have no idea what you mean, unless you explain. International flights tend to follow great circle routes, which only make sense on a sphere - if the aim is to minimise flight time and fuel consumption - generally speaking. Probably you don't understand the paths.
    6. Firstly, how do you know they are all photoshopped? Secondly, what about live feeds, such as from the International Space Station, or from the recent launch of the James Webb telescope? Do you believe those are photoshopped on the fly, so to speak? Or just outright fakes? And, while you're at it, tell me why you think NASA wants to publish faked photos/videos. What is gained from the massive conspiracy you allege? Who benefits?

    So there's a conspiracy to suppress information about the flat earth and the moon landing, according to you. Who benefits from these conspiracies? And why are they doing such a bad job of censoring the views of people such as yourself? After all, here you are, telling us all your truth - publishing it for all to see on the interwebs.

    How do you account for the rotation of weather systems and things like hurricanes? What causes them to rotate? Or do you perhaps deny that hurricanes rotate (or are hurricanes fake, too)?
    So pumps are impossible? Are all pumps fake? How is it possible to have an inflated bicycle tire? What would happen, in your opinion, if an inflated bicycle tire was placed in a vacuum?
    It's held onto the surface by gravity. Do you believe in gravity? How does gravity work on your flat earth?
    Who is David Weiss? How do you know he would pay up? Maybe he's not being honest. After all, it isn't hard to prove the Earth is spinning.
    What do UFOs have to do with the flat earth?

    It sounds like you believe in at least two grand conspiracies to suppress the truth: about flat earth and about aliens. How many other conspiracies do you believe? Could you be wrong about any of them?
    You can't understand why, in the 21st century, it is ludicrous to assert that the Earth is flat? Are you for real?
     
  22. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn't a flat earth have the same problem? Are you saying that there is no vacuum in space?
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    37,310
    Don't be silly! If there was vacuum in space around the flat earth, how would the tortoises breathe?
     
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