www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,866785,00.html why is it that we refuse to acknowledge that our planet is a defined sphere with finite resources? do we want more because we are made to believe that we need what we don't need? how could we possibly go without those important new ingredients? wait, how can it be new and improved? the age-old story of selfishness and greed has become holy capitalist doctrine. capitalism has put money above all else. it's a shiney soap bubble. that is how the system stays afloat...by promising everyone the chance that they, too, could make it big, if only they work hard and bide their time. when your chance comes, you're expected to take it. or else you're a sucker, and with our rising population, the number born per minute must be increasing exponentially. what can one person do? well, for starters, change your perspective. if you buy into the system, then you must realize that you are the sucker. what would happen if people simply refused to go to work? even for just a day? what if we all went without? a little sacrifice for the greater common good? that might send a message. can we really hope to change the world without starting at home. ghandi said that we must be the change we wish to see in the world. the double-standard has to stop.
Welcome to Sciforums, JesusPresley Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! <i>"why is it that we refuse to acknowledge that our planet is a defined sphere with finite resources? do we want more because we are made to believe that we need what we don't need? how could we possibly go without those important new ingredients?"</i> Because when we are born, as babies we immediately define ourselves as the centre of the universe. Not everyone is as caring as you or others are, and refuse to see beyond the innate mask that narrows our peripheral vision. I blame mainly the technological era we are in for our wasteful mentality, because we see so many resources and opportunities on our horizon now. Examples of this can be traced through history, such as the 1920's. But then, look what happened in the next decade. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! <i>"wait, how can it be new and improved?"</i> Yeah, if it's new, then it can't have been improved because it never existed. And if it's improved, how can it be new, because it's just making better an old product. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! <i>"what can one person do? well, for starters, change your perspective. if you buy into the system, then you must realize that you are the sucker."</i> Though the motivation may be noble, it's hard for just one person to do anything now that the snowball-action is rolling faster and faster. Like throwing a grain of sand against an oncoming train. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! <i>"what would happen if people simply refused to go to work? even for just a day? what if we all went without? a little sacrifice for the greater common good?"</i> What good is it if people did not work? We are already in the depression cycle; we should be working harder to get out of this sliding economy! More money circulating will mean more time to solve our failing resources problem. We cannot all become jobless hippies. Maybe some other action would be better; for example, at my school, as part of the External Affairs committee, we held a "Buy Nothing Day" campaign, where we encouraged people not to buy anything just for the day. We thought it would make a statement to all the corporations, if for one day we refused to give in to their grip on our wallets. It ... didn't work well. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! We've had campaigns and leaflets and brochures, telling people about the ingredients of certain products, and about the slave labour in some countries, to at least stir some guilt in people. But it's all been tired and we can't break through. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I know you mean well, but it's so hard. Sooner or later people will get angry at us, because they don't wish to give up their luxuries. Kind of makes you want to whack some of them, eh? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Capitalism does not imply resource-hogging environmental catastrophe. The two are independent. Any kind of economic system can result in resource-hogging environmental catastrophe. Just look at the environmental track record held by the communist economies.... This is called 'culture.' I fail to see how people refusing to go to work would do anything for the 'common good.' After all, closing the grocery stores and turning people away from hospitals will probably not result in enlightenment as much as it will result in hungry, dying people. What double-standard? So you hate capitalism and think it's responsible for all the world's ills. This doesn't mean capitalism IS responsible for all the world's ills. You just need to open your eyes and start thinking a little more logically. - Warren
first of all, thanks for responding; but i wonder if anyone has read the article from the guardian for which i posted the link. i do think that capitalism is flawed as a system because it puts everything behind "capital". it that really what makes the world go 'round? if we stand behind such a system, doesn't that mean that we are putting our faith in it? in my mind, a system like socialism which focuses on "people" addresses where value really is. throwing around communist regimes of the past that used dictatorial policies in response to nations like the u.s. and u.k. sending in troops to try and quell the bolsheveik rebellion. the fact is that you can call it whatever you want; but when it smells like it, looks like it, and sounds like it, you may as well call it what it really is: fascism. when i suggest not going to work (for a day!) i realize that campaigns like the "buy nothing day" have been going on for some time with minimal success. however, that doesn't mean that they are the wrong thing to do. sure, our economy is spiraling down; but no one stops to think that it can't help but do just that. read the editorial by george monbiot.
<i>"Capitalism is a millenarian cult, raised to the status of a world religion. Like communism, it is built upon the myth of endless exploitation. Just as Christians imagine that their God will deliver them from death, capitalists believe that theirs will deliver them from finity. The world's resources, they assert, have been granted eternal life."</i> What kind of capitalists and Christians has this man been conferring with?? :bugeye: I'm sure Christians will take offence to the word "imagine". And only the most blind of capitalists will believe that there is always to be an infinite number of resources. <i>"It is possible to change the way we live. The economist Bernard Lietaer has shown how a system based upon negative rates of interest would ensure that we accord greater economic value to future resources than to present ones. By shifting taxation from employment to environmental destruction, governments could tax over-consumption out of existence."</i> This sounds like a good idea. But can you imagine how massive the upheaval would have to be in order to turn this into a practice? Everything will have to be rewritten, rearranged, reorganized ... it's just not possible with the magnitude of humanity to deal with, that will be affected by this. We are too accustomed to inertia to evoke any kind of rebellion. Conservatism is sweeping the world.
I read the article. It was an editorial in which the author expressed his idea that capitalism is an evil empire that threatens to destroy the world by wanting perpetual growth. It didn't have any facts in it; just unjustified opinions. What was the article supposed to make me think? I don't know what you mean by "puts everything behind captial." That the price of a good or service is determined by what the consumer is willing to pay is the definition of capitalism. It has nothing to do with putting anything behind anything else. A socialist economy is just a capitalist economy where some services (like healthcare) have prices fixed by the government. The US is close to being a socialist democracy in many ways. So now I'm perplexed -- capitalism is the same as fascism? Eh? What's really humorous to me about your entire position is that you repeatedly claim that capitalism is evil and harmful to the world and the environment and everything else, but then claim that the answer is to stop going to work... ? Talk about a non-sequitor. The answer to perk up the economy is for people to stop hording money in bank accounts. If you horde too much money in the bank, you're not putting enough in the pockets of other citizens whose services you purchase -- and those people then can't afford to eat. - Warren
as you say, "imagine" can be a dirty word. my point is that we have to start somewhere; and it's got to be with ourselves. if we continue to point the finger at conservatives or liberals or despots or religion or corporations, then we are refusing to acknowledge our own part in the big mess. the fact is that it's not so daunting as we are led to believe. when you consider the way that the rest of the world has to survive without most of the things that the "first world" take for granted. what would we do if there was a real crisis? if there were riots and looting and people had to worry about not only where their next meal is coming from but also whether or not people were going to break into their homes and kill them, we would have an instantaneous "rewrite" of the way things are. i thought that in the aftermath of september 11 that people might actually start thinking about these things and change the way that they lived in the world; but we lost that brief window of sensitivity to "remain on alert; yet shop as normal". you are correct that many people just don't want to see things the way that they are. as long as their lives are unaffected then they won't bother to look further. they won't have any reason to care. http://www.truemajority.com/register/earth.asp
i don't think i ever used the word "evil". in any case, by the idea of not working, i mean, not working within the system. the whole system is based on inflated rates and unending growth and, above all else, faith. back when the depression hit, the banking bubble burst and everyone was affected. during that time, people had to find other ways to survive. now, they weren't reinventing the wheel. they just went back to the way it used to be. they bartered services because they had no reason to trust money. i agree with you that hording money doesn't help the system; yet wealth is being concentrated, more and more, in fewer and fewer hands. this doesn't help any of us. as we see larger and larger banks and companies being allowed, flying in the face of laws restricting monopolies, we see diversity decreasing. it is in diversity that our cultural strength lies. i am sick of hearing about how horrible the economy is doing, as we give more and more of our tax dollars to support huge corporations and pork projects. i do think that capitalism is like fascism. if you look at the policies and practices of the world bank and the international monetary fund, you will see that it is money that is king. while people are kept from moving between borders and finding better wages, capital has unrestricted access to natural resources and to our (sometimes) elected officials. for the sake of almighty dollar, corporations are allowed not only to keep labor movements in check; but to despoil the environment with impunity. as long as they have enough money for lawyers, guns, and government officials, they have nothing to fear from the great mass of people that don't want what they're selling. everything is being privatized these days. water is one of those things. now there's a product that defines demand. thanks to the insurance industry, the quality of health care is determined by profit. the concept of a living wage is a joke even in this country as more and more people are working multiple jobs to make ends meet. and finally, we cannot seem to ween ourselves off of the oil teat, as fuel efficiency standards go down, the kyoto treaty is ignored, and we are putting billions into another war for the black gunk.
Man, that video sealed the deal. Where do I sign up? Do I get a free t-shirt? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! <i>"i am sick of hearing about how horrible the economy is doing, as we give more and more of our tax dollars to support huge corporations and pork projects."</i> Yes, I've always wondered if Bill Gates is one of the richest men on Earth, why can't he find it in his heart to give some to orphans and the hunger-stricken countries that so clearly need the money more than Gates does? It would be a lot better to cauterize and let heal the sores of this world, rather than ignore them, and let them fester and rot until it's too late. <i>"if there were riots and looting and people had to worry about not only where their next meal is coming from but also whether or not people were going to break into their homes and kill them, we would have an instantaneous "rewrite" of the way things are."</i> Yes, but only if it happened in North America, or "countries that matter". The same things are happening all over the world, but our heads are so high up in the clouds that we don't broadcast them, and pretend that they are not there. It's really too sad. It was how the whole 9/11 thing started, as well. I agree with you that we, as humans, have to do something, soon if not now. Problem is, by which means, and coming up with the actual event that will grab everyone's attention and force them to rouse from their comfortable hibernation. This should be primal instinct really, if you think about it. We do the things we do to benefit of ourselves (in the end), so you would think that everyone would have done something to save the environment and the economy in order to preserve their own well-being. :bugeye: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i see the issues facing capitalism as the same as those facing technology - our science has well overgrown our spirit. contrary to groot's opinion, i think it very well may require us to be "dying and hungry" (or some similar "rock bottom") for this nation to see the light of these issues and collectively be motivated enough to make some serious changes. everyone resists change, you know.
Blue Soul, Bill does gives lots of money to organizations to help the less fortunate, but he rarely takes credit for it. He doesnt like people to "trace" his money. The problem with this thread is that people are avoiding the point of the article. Capitalism (and yes, all other forms of economy) are driving the earth into just rock. Not only is it the economic system, it is humanity (mainly America and Western culture). The amount of consumption that we lust for now will soon come back and haunt us. This is the most important topic in the world, yet humans waste their lives in wars and political debates. What good is our state of life when we will not have life at all in 100 years? Oh yeah: 30,000 plant and animal species become extinct each year. Keep that in mind as you floor it in your car and waste resources all so that you can get to the next RED light faster.
a huge problem in this matter is human nature. I do not think that the human mind is very good at looking at things in the far future. It seems to be fixed on 'today'. Nobody appears to be concerned about the future, because our brain is telling us constantly how ok things are right now for us (never mind that billions of people can't really say this). We really have to put effort into thinking about the future. But who bothers? It is ok now...it always will be ok. The sun came up today and will rise again tomorrow. We might be faced with an impossible battle between instinct and deliberate thought.
Andre, Great article, but the reason that we are all pessimistic is that environmental problems are our doing. We as the most conscious beings on the planet have the power to change this type of end. While end is inevitable in every case, why go down by killing yourself? Anyway, the pollutioin is really nasty, too. CMON 30,000 species of animals die EVERY YEAR, and you arent concerned? I hope you do care because you didnt state your position clearly. Thanks for the link.
my thoughts bout earth resources I think earth resources are less of a problem compared to earth's atmosphere... If we keep this up, we wont have to worrie bout whats under the ground, since we wont be on the ground to go under the ground, catch me drift? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And I feel I must agree with Andre and Slacker on that headless chicken issue Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But to get back on that Gates issue, I also feel I must say that, something a lot of people would say otherwise, I know, that what a person has not willing to lose. My point here is, to help 3rd world countries, orphans, animals going extinct, and that sort of things, we, the western culture, will have to make a step backwards. Are we willing to do that? I know I am. I can live without this computer I'm behind, and my own computer (this is my moms computer, didnt feel like turning on my own again), but the question remains, is the rest of the world society willing to do so for the greater good? I doubt it...
I understand your point, but as Andre said: we are chickens running without heads. In America, everyone is content with the pollution problem. Ok, let me use my example: I live in Houston (the city battling for the most pollution in the US), and everywhere I look, I see Excursions and H2's. Not only these cars, all types of SUVs. The best selling cars in Houston are SUVs. Suburbans litter the entire state of Texas. TRUCKS: Avalanches, Ford F-350s, Chevy Trucks, Huge Dodge Rams. So, can we agree that there needs to be some kind of lesson in car pollution? I do not disagree that some environmentalists are hard headed because there are hard-headed people in every philosophy. America is filthy dude.
