The Human Brain Is Incapable Of Volition Or Free Will

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, May 10, 2021.

  1. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    I was specifically referring to the Color Experience. It would seem that there might be people that do not Experience the Color Qualia, but yet they have full Color differentiation. They are not Color Blind, even though they do not Experience Color (the Qualia). So I should have said they are Color Zombies, and not imply total Zombies. Anyway, I am still exploring this unbelievable possibility and am not completely sure it could be true. We have no way of Experiencing what another Mind is Experiencing. It is the inability or unwillingness of people to admit to having Color Qualia that raises this as an issue for me.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    That is a totally incomprehensible observation. Seems to me you are getting things mixed up.
    A person either can or cannot experience color qualia. If they don't it is a physical sensory impairment, not an inability to for experiential emotions, like autism.

    Consider an optical illusion. Is that a lack of qualia ? A false experiential (emotional) interpretation? Or an inability to see normal sensory data?

    Qualia as social effects of minds

    Introduction

    ...more
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5992535.1/

    We experience reality by agreement. Our brains make "best guesses" of what it is we are experiencing and project our expectation of reality against the incoming sensory data.
    *This is why Anil Seth uses the term "controlled hallucination".
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  5. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, but I am saying that they don't Experience the Color Qualia and yet can distinguish Colors. Machines can distinguish Colors without using Qualia. They are more like Machines. We don't know what their Experience could be.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    I think I understand what you are saying. It's true machines can display colors with being conscious of doing so. But when we store the data on a HD, we can make the machine recall the entire scene and compare it to the next incoming data and measure any differences. Example; taking a picture of a barn at sunrise and sunset.

    IMO that's where the GPT3 will shine. It functions on tokens, complete bits of memory (pixels, shapes, shadings, etc), rather than binary data strings. Is this why a GPT3 can imitate Van Gogh and Beethoven. Perhaps some of our electronic experts can assist?
     
  8. river

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    17,307
    Highlighted

    But never come up with neither . Because GPT3 can't think in terms of 100 millions of yrs. In evolution .
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    It doesn't need to. We can effect evolution by artificial selection much faster than nature.

    That may not always be advantageous in the long run, but we can cheat nature. And if we can do it, we do it...

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  10. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Don't understand the distinction you are trying to make here. Everything is always Binary Data in a Computer.
     
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  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    Is machine language always binary?
    But that's not what people mean when they say "binary code." That has a specific meaning to programmers: "Binary" code is code that is not in text form. Source code exists as text; it looks like a highly formalized system of English and mathematical symbols. But the CPU doesn't understand English or mathematical notation; it understands numbers. So the compiler translates source code into a stream of numbers that represent CPU instructions that have the same underlying meaning as the source code. This is properly known as "machine code," but a lot of people call it "binary". [/quote] https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/236415/is-machine-language-always-binary

    GPT3 is language based code (tokens). No numbers. All you do is ask it "make a Google website" and it makes a Google website for you and it will write the code for you to boot.
    This very advancement actually poses a restriction on the system. You cannot ask it to perform a complicated compound question, because of the processing limitations.
    You see the difference?

    This is why the human brain alone has 250 trillion synaptic connections. It allows us to consider abstract concepts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  12. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/236415/is-machine-language-always-binary

    GPT3 is language based code (tokens). No numbers. All you do is ask it "make a Google website" and it makes a Google website for you and it will write the code for you to boot.
    This very advancement actually poses a restriction on the system. You cannot ask it to perform a complicated compound question, because of the processing limitations.
    You see the difference?

    This is why the human brain alone has 250 trillion synaptic connections. It allows us to consider abstract concepts.[/QUOTE]
    So does GPT3 run on some new kind of Hardware? What exactly is a Token in the context of GPT3 operations?
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,777
    So does GPT3 run on some new kind of Hardware? What exactly is a Token in the context of GPT3 operations?[/QUOTE]
    AFAIK a token is an identifier. Human also use tokens in constructing an internal picture or a sentence, an expectation which is then compared to incoming data, Anil Seth calls that a process of "controlled hallucination"

    If we think of this for the GPT3 all we need is offer a verbal command. "make a chair that looks like an avocado".

    The GPT3 searches for the tokens necessary to fill the "necessary constituent parts". i.e. what does an avocado look like, what does a chair look like . Then it "compiles" these shapes into objects.
    The result;

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    Is this not what furniture designers do?

    In short, this is no longer a simple mathematical binary process of 0 and 1, but a language, an orchestrated set of necessary representative "tokens" sufficient for the construction of an object with a function. A compilation of a chair that looks like an avocado. A visualization of the words; "make a chair that looks like an avocado".

    That is how I see this entirely new mode of computation which in part mimics how humans think,
     
  14. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

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    50
    The brain has nothing in common with a digital computer, a Turing machine, it does not execute instructions, it is not - it seems - algorithmic.
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    You are correct. The brain does not work in linear fashion like an old digital computer. But neither does the GPT3.

    Both the Human brain and the GPT3 brain are compilation, integration, and orchestration machines.
     
  16. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

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    50
    I disagree.

    "GPT-3" is software and so runs on a digital computer, it is algorithmic.

    There's no evidence that the human brain is a symbol manipulator (which is what a digital computer can be described as).
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,777
    It is more than that. It is not linear, but parallel like a human brain.
    Watch Anil Seth.
    He explains how the brain manipulates symbolic data by controlled hallucinations.
     
  18. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    This is just about all the Computer can do:

    1) Add, Sub, Mult ...
    2) AND, OR, XOR ...
    3) ShiftL, ShiftR ...
    4) Move Data CPU to RAM, Move Data RAM to CPU ...
    5) Jump , Jump Conditionally ...

    There is no inherent Token processing operation. Any kind of Token concept will be implemented as Binary Data.
     
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  19. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

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    50
    No it is not "more than that" it may be a simulation of some kind of system but it is software and is algorithmic like all software.

    There's no evidence that the human brain can be simulated by an algorithmic system.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,777
    We may have to move this conversation to the AI thread.

    So in context of the OP, how does the human brain work and does it have FW or Choice from among available options?
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,777
    Yes GPT3 employs "tokens" (gathers lexical and optical data) before it converts everything into binary data, just like humans. That's its strength.

    But we should discuss this in the AI threads.

    For now, I'm interested in how the human brain works, the "easy problem".
    Once this is established we can use that as a fundamental baseline for processing compound data sets and make choices from available possibilities and compare it to the new species of AI.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,777
    This may be a good starting point;

    Our brains have a basic algorithm that enables our intelligence
    Date: November 21, 2016
    Source: Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University
    Summary: A new Theory of Connectivity represents a fundamental principle for how our billions of neurons assemble and align not just to acquire knowledge, but to generalize and draw conclusions from it.
    I believe Tononi calls this "integration" and Hameroff calls it "orchestration"
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161121165921.htm
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  23. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

    Messages:
    50
    Except our brains do not execute algorithms, they are not symbol manipulators nor is there any proof that a symbol manipulator can replicate brain functions.

    This is covered in books What computers still can't do and others.
     
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