The "Justice Democrats"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bowser, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    It's good to see people are wanting to reform the party, but I think they have a lot of work in reforming it and their ideals...

     
    ElectricFetus likes this.
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe work on your own shitty party? No one asked for your bad ideas.
     
    Kristoffer likes this.
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    President Trump already came up with the idea of returning power to the people. In his executive order, about freezing regulations, he told the agencies to side with the people, over government. For example, the IRS is not expected to enforce the health care mandate fines, since that would favor big government lording over powerless citizens. The government should not steal from Joe, to pay Mary, for her votes.

    Another way to help this out, which Trump supports, is term limits. When politicians are able to remain in power, forever, they will live election to election. This means avoiding the tough choices, that can make them look bad, using the illusions of partisan grid lock. It also means extra time kissing the right donor butts for campaign contributions, while selling out the country to the highest bidder, including foreign countries.

    If elected officials were only able to stay two terms, they only get to sell out the country, once, since the first election is not a reliable investment. Often during the first election cycle, principles reign higher, than that of the incumbent, who has the power to lure donor investors via the rigged system.

    This change would help the democrats, since those in charge of their party, have been there too long and will avoid change that upsets their power and their reelection. The Democrats could get fresh blood into the party, quicker, if there were term limits. The Democratic party was at its prime under Kennedy and Clinton, who both used conservative economic policies, blended with human and natural rights.

    Kennedy said, ask not what your country can do for you. This is opposite to the mantra of the modern democratic party. The current approach of special fabricated rights, to buy votes, needs big government to shake down, the other half of the citizens, who now have even less rights. Kennedy said, ask what you can do for your country, which means power to the people; volunteerism versus government mandates.

    Another aspect of power to the people is smaller government. Smaller government assures that the government lacks the manpower to shake down the citizens. They should have enough manpower to take care of the business of the government; good servant. However, they should not have so many people to where busy work means more red tape and interference. This is also the approach of Trump.

    Lastly, you need law enforcement against criminals, since power to the people means protecting the majority, who are good citizens, against a smaller number of criminals, who can take away liberties, on the streets and backroads of America.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah I watched this already, it is all good and all, but I think putting a name to the divide will only make it worse.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Did he now? How nice of him to do so. But I don't think it returning power to the people was Trump's idea. "Power to the people was an often repeated hippie chant from the 60's, and I'm pretty sure Trump wasn't a hippie. And here is the thing, Trump has done absolutely nothing to return power to the people. If Trump wanted to return power to the people, he would make government more democratic. But he hasn't, moreover, he hasn't advocated anything which would make government more accountable and responsible to the people...oops.

    Except, that isn't what his executive order did. Trump didn't tell government agencies to side with people. He issued an executive order to freeze government regulations which was more show than substance. He didn't tell the IRS to not enforce "healthcare mandate fines". Unfortunately for you and your Republican cohorts, facts do matter.

    When have term limits ever worked? States have tried it. But term limits have never worked. The whole term limit spiel is a right wing red herring intended to distract and prevent real change. Term limits exacerbates "butt kissing", it doesn't stop it or even slow it. By limiting time in office it actually accelerates the need to kiss butt and line pockets.

    Republicans have paid a great deal of lip service to term limits, but they have never delivered. When Republicans last controlled government during the Bush II years, they did a lot of stuff, but they didn't do term limits, because it's a right wing distraction, a red herring. It distracts the base, and keeps them hyped up. It's some of the shit they feed the Republican base.

    If Republicans were really serious about returning power to the people, they would make our government more democratic. They would get rid of the Electoral College. They would ensure all votes carry equal value. They would allocate senators based on population rather than geography. They would outlaw gerrymandering, but they haven't. Republicans are very fond of the undemocratic institutions in our government. That's how they cling to power. Republicans would drain all the secret money from our campaign system. They would reverse Citizens United. But they have done none of those things, nor to they intend to. In fact they have done everything possible to infuse secret money into political campaigns, e.g. Citizens United. and zealously resisted Democratic attempts to reverse it. If Republicans were serious about giving the government back to the people they would restore the Fairness Doctrine requiring media outlets like Fox News be fair and balanced. Republicans have also zealously fought the restoration of the Fairness Doctrine.

    Trump has advocated nothing which would make government more accountable to the American people. He has done nothing to drain the swamp, nor will he. In fact he has done everything possible to fill the swamp. He has staffed his administration with lobbyists and megabillionaires, the very people he railed about on the campaign trail.

    Oh, well then you should be able to prove it. So let's see it. But you can't, because it's unmitigated bullshit.

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    Here is the thing, I have never met anyone of your ilk who could tell me in any meaningful terms what is "smaller government" much less explain how that would be beneficial. So here's your chance Wellwisher, explain it.

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    Okay, who is arguing we shouldn't have law enforcement? I think this is one issue in which Democrats and Republicans agree.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    No no no see trump is going to implement those term limits, you just watch him now, he going to make an executive order, yep.

    No no no Nooo, see that order tells them they can do something that they already had the right to do.

    Depends on how long you make term limits, I would say the 2 year election cycle for the house is the bigger problem considering how many gerrymandered republicans have to keep moving rightward or get primaried out. Personally I would like to see the house abolished by internet voting, or at least every representative have an online site for voting on bills where if a certain percentage of their district tell them to vote one way on a bill they must comply.

    No no no Nooo no no, see smaller states need more power, the people in rural areas need more power then the filthy urban people!

    no no no No no no Nooo no no you know, small, not infringing on the free market, any infringement on the market is why the market fails, because of those gosh darn regulations, as long as there is government the market is infringed and thus not free, we need free market.

    no no no No no no Nooo no no Noo nooOOooo no, BLM wants there to be no more police and BLM is the left, therefor all the left, democrats, all of them, want no police.

    https://archive.is/QhKnr
    https://archive.is/Vu3qU
     
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  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Is it? Why is it good? Are you a Bernie Sanders supporter? No you aren't. So why do think it's a good idea if the party moves more to the left? You are a right winger, remember?

    Bernie and his supporters will never turn the Democratic Party into the Republican Party if that is what you are hoping for. The Democratic Party remains the most popular party in the country. What the Democratic Party needs to do is improve its messaging with the lesser educated whites in a few key states.

    The Republican Party faces larger issues. The Republican Party is heavily reliant upon the very undemocratic aspects of our government, gerrymandering, the Electoral College, the allocation of senate seats, etc. The Republican Party is shrinking as a percent of the popular vote. That can only last so long.
     
  11. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    We were so close to having the right message to! Free Healthcare, Free education, build infrastructure, tax the rich, a shrivel huntch 74 year old jew with no name recognition managed millions of votes and polling that showed he would have curb stomped trump on that message alone, but alas the DNC and the stupid shot-themselves-in-the-foot wing of the democrats choose the "i'm with her" message instead.

    Look I'm all for this "justice democrat" call, I just need to aah "vett" them some before giving them my money.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, that is siding with corporations over people. Limits on the amount of mercury you are allowed to emit target corporations, not people. He is giving corporations more freedom to harm Americans.
    Only stupid people pay taxes, per Trump.
    Reagan grew the federal government by 235,000 people. Obama shrank the government by 30,000 people. Trump's plan (more military spending, the wall, more infrastructure spending) will balloon the government again.
    Correct. And under Obama, crime is down.
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Sounding good, so far, more vetting to come.

     

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