The Paradox of Our Age

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Kittamaru, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    5,942
    The so called laws of physics are a PROPERTY of stuff and did not come from anywhere

    Not in the sense "we have a lump of something now let's make some laws about it"

    Stuff and governing laws are a package deal

    And there's the rub. Science does not deal in beliefs
    Beliefs, unless backed by evidence, cannot be examined

    I believe Fred is 2 metres tall - Evidence used a agreed measure to check

    I believe Fred is a good person - Evidence look at the charity work he does OK. What about his wife beating? Oh. Well he gives so much money to the homeless. OK. What about the 20 drink driving tickets? Oh

    Where on the spirituality sliding guage would you place Fred? Would it depend only on what you know about him?

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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I am not concerned with trying to convince others really and certainly your critical analysis is reasonable.
    It is my belief that in spiritual matters one has little to no hope of changing someone elses view irrespective of how sound or how reasonable the bank of facts may be.
    I expect I could proceed un a better fashion but really I see no need.
    I think that is reasonable but I dont think one can expect others who are opposite in my view will do this...and part of my point is that my behaviour is no worse than my opposition and probably representative in general of how spiritualists approach arguement.
    So much turns on the meaning of the word lie.
    Discussions have gone before and the question raised re intent.
    If the party making a statement that is untrue but which they believe is true may be classed as other than a lie however is it not reasonable for someone to still call an untrue statement a lie.
    Rather than debate if the word lie is appropriate I would be just as happy to say spirituality is made up nonsense or imaginings without support and again these statements even with supporting evidence will not win the day in a battle between me and someone who takes an opposite view.
    So even with its flaws I am happy to use the word lie...although I would be much happier to use the venacular popular in this country...bulldust or even bullshit.
    Pity but I am still happy with using it.
    I agree but we do not need to invent stuff to fill in the gaps and yet that seems the way of it.
    I believe you are over thinking things.
    Or are you trying to indicate spirituality is a state of confusion in a sea of wonder.
    Still I enjoyed reading all of it.
    Why does there have to be mystery. I know what I dont know and dont know what there could be that I dont know but from there I have no need to introduce any more and certainly have no need to speculate.
    You can drive a log way with a tank full of presumption.
    Why does the universe need a begining?
    To satisfy a humans need to relate it to common experience?
    Why not presume it has no begining if we are in the business of presumption.
    Or lets presume it is a large animal and we are microbes. ..presumption does not work for me.
    If only all humans could be so humble what a wonderful world we would enjoy.
    Yet you drift away from that position at little herein.
    Thats ok a little exercise is better than none.
    There is no need for you to retract anything..we deal with opinion and although their owners treat their opinions like their children being incapable of ever being wrong opinions are often wrong, often not specific and often uninformed yet they are ours and we defend them as we would our children and with the same refusal to see any flaw.

    A most enjoyable post from you and I thank you for taking the time to consider my proposition that spirituality is a lie.
    In retrospect and having considered your comments I think I should have overcome my dislike of profanity and said spirituality is bullshit but I doubt that would see you any happier.

    Alex
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well then you are not arguing in good faith. That hurts you.

    I have made no such clam. All I have done is request taht you efned yours.

    That has not helped the trolls on this forum. That's why I said 'don't be Jan'

    Ah. So this was all a ploy - an attempt to give them a taste of their own medicine.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And thank you for your opinion and thank you for all your links I was not able to read them until today but better late than never.

    Alex
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes I am but a little sneeky.

    I have to go out so forgive me that I will put off reply until later.

    Alex
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Frustration that they wont change their positions when I argue the right way mixed with confusion generated by the fact I dont want them to change because of my arguement and some kind of, as you put it, give back their own medicine.

    And then when I ask why bother I can not answer so what need do I cater to?

    Alex
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    3,987
    To the OP.

    Oh, and if the geezer is just trying to seek some high ground comfort in misery loves company, instead of just lamenting like he didn't have a puppy when he was growing up, he should come to gripes that world can seem a cruel place.

    But that would be politics I guess.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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  12. river

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    10,847
    Its seems that the cruelty of our age is in the hands of the powerful few rather than the many .
     
  13. river

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    10,847
    Hear , Hear

    There is much which has glossed over our psychological change .
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Humans character & values are not much, if at all, different from what they were thruout our known history. Constantly, people who do not know history make similiar claims. Socrates bemoaned the character & behavior of the youth of his time & place as people here did in the 50s, 60s, 70s & today.
    People in developed countries are safer than they have been any time prior to 50 years ago. Tho yes, so called civilization should treat its children, elderly, handicapped & poor much better, they are much better off than any time previously. Rape & child abuse happen much less & are prosecuted much more than ever before. Our justice system needs much improvement but it is so much better than thru most of history. Being poor can be devastating but most of the poor in developed countries live better than kings did not long ago. Law enforcement was corrupt thruout history but tho it is far from perfect, it is much better today. Our food should be much better but far less people die from bad food & far less people go hungry.

    When a husband & wife cannot get along together well enough, they should divorce. It is much worse for children to be exposed to such hell than to have divorced parents & it is better for the parents to try to find someone they can be better with. My parents should have divorced long before they did.
    1 night stands may not be good for you but you do not know whether they are good or right for others.

    People have always had short tempers, little sense, bad judgement, quick anger & narrow viewpoints. Tho I certainly encourage more reading, reading much was not an option for most people thru most history. There is much less prejudice than ever before. We have much more communication than ever before & that may be a major key to improving things.
    IF enough people who claim to love their fellow man actually did, there would be no such thing as money. But there is much more charity than ever before. Significant disaster aid is a fairly new thing in history as are homeless shelters. The Red Cross started only 153 years ago. People no longer go to prison for being unable to pay debts. Prisons should be improved but they are not 1 tenth the inhumane hellholes they were. Mental hospitals are a farce mostly yet they are much better than the Bedlams of the past.

    The Good Old Days are fantasy with extremely little basis in reality.
    Societies & individual humans need much improvement but looking at the past with rose colored glasses does not help. People are probably a bit better than before. They are definitely not much worse.

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  15. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,803
    So, in essence, you are attributing it to looking at the past through Rose Coloured Glasses?
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I doubt it is due to any 1 thing but being so unaware of history does not help & neither does longing for Good Old Days which never existed.

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  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well the preacher did his job as have we not reflected upon his words and a realisation things are pretty good..
    Look you can chew a Macas burger with your tounge how good is that..reduced dental bills.
    But those folk get people to think somehow better and maybe it is a backward way of getting folk to be happy...
    Now there's a job.
    Alex
     
  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    14,695
    ^^^
    Just to be clear : In some statements, I meant less percentage not necessarily less numbers due to there being more people than before.

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  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Aside from the author in the OP, can you imagine having to do a sermon every week?

    -Ah, WTF do I regurgitate this week?

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  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That would be, probably, wrong - lie would be likely more accurate.
    The essential characteristic of bullshit is that its perpetrator does not care whether they are right or wrong, true or false, accurate or not: the purpose is to get what one wants, not communicate an idea. Most religious types seem to care.
    I've been told by a professional that a saying of the ministerial cadre is that everyone has one sermon in them, some have two or three, but to have fifty a year for twenty or thirty years it has to be your life. I offered the possibility of making them shorter, as a remedy. He said that was harder, not easier.
     

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