THE REAL [GOD] = ALLAH ...... join here you all need to know

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by muhammad, Jan 15, 2005.

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  1. muhammad Registered Senior Member

    peace on those who follow the right way to (ALLAH) the only great and unique god for the whole world and planets and all mankind and the only god who made everything .. made your brain and gave you eyes and life and he can take it and stop you from thinking and can force you to believe in him and erase all data programmed in your mind that give you ability to think there is another god

    did you study the cells and biology ??

    ALLAH made your brain cells and each millimeter from it

    he could program your brain to know him only and never think in another god
    could program you to do all right things and never make mistakes

    ALLAH doesnt force people to believe in him

    but ..... its a test .... big and hard test so he gives you the freedom to choose till this test ends and at last ...... heavens forever
    or ... hell forever

    first of all im not so good at english so excuse me if you find it hard to understand me ...

    my name is muhammad and i live in egypt im 28 years old ... studied engineering and i got a high score on IQ tests ... i work on computer field

    i entered this forum to give you some guide lines you may follow may not

    if you deserve and ALLAH loves you ....he will guide you
    if you dont deserve then none can guide you but ALLAH

    i know there are closed minds and actually closed hearts everywhere in world

    i got no time now to discuss everything here and too many questions i know all atheists asking like why god lets me feel hungry why do others die starving why are there volcanos why why ...

    i just say if you find your way and know how great is ALLAH and that he doesnt need humans but humans need him and if you know that ALLAH is independant and we are poor and you know ALLAH is not unjust and if you know ALLAH isnt like us or similar to anything in world or in your imagination

    if you know so and reach this point .. ( you will not reach it unles you deserve it ) if you reach it ... you will know that all these strange things are there to test you till the end and stresses all humans to pick the good and clean hearts and leave the dirty dead hearts

    as if its GOLD being tested by fire scum goes to trash and only original and good GOLD left

    read this example ....

    lets suppose you made some puppets and you put them in a closed room

    those puppets move using electricity or batteries and they dont see or know thier maker who made them

    lets suppose those puppets has the ability to talk ..... and think ....

    do they have the right to think that their maker is the same like them walks using electricity or needs batteries ?? .......

    well well

    take this one

    you make a pc computer and this computer works using CDS and DVDS and hard disk

    does the computer have the right to think that the human who made it

    uses CDS or DVDS ?


    humans come from mother and get born and they need food and they die and they are weak

    so do we humans have the right to think that god is like us ??
    he is born ??? ...... he eats ????? ......... he sleeps ????

    he needs wife ...... ??

    he needs son ....... ???

    he borns ........ ??

    he ..... ?? he ....... ?????

    ok i give you translation for a small part of the QURAAN

    QURAAN = the book of ALLAH contains words ALLAH sent to MUHAMMAD the muslim messenger prophet to teach people and warn them ...

    QURAAN has many incridibles in all kinds ... scientific incridibles and natural

    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    [1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    [2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    [3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    [4] And there is none like unto Him.

    see ?

    ALLAH is above what in your selves and your minds

    try to wonder how great is that god who made skies and planets and planets we didnt see and things we dont know ???

    earth + humans = a dot in this world = almost nothing in this existence

    so .......does ALLAh need this (dot) or need to lie to this (dot) and say im your god ...... surrender to me you weak (dot) ??

    how unjust is the human ... ALLAH created him and he was nothing

    now he says god you are not there and i dont want you or need you !!

    and says bad words about his god ...... god who can cut your tongue and can destroy you and the whole existence

    in fact ALLAh doesnt need you but he is great kind to give those who follow his way give them heavens and everything and love them

    ALLAH has great patience and you should know a fact came from ALLAH to his messenger MUHAMMAD

    1 DAY of ALLAH = 1000 YEARS of humans <------- was corrected cause it was typed wrong .. i typed it 1000 days while the truth is 1000 years
    yes you didnt read it wrong its right...... 1 day = 1000 YEARS
    imagine it and be sure its a truth

    if you believe ALLAH made this existence and everything then u believe he can do everything and he is not subjected to physical or dynamic laws !

    ALLAH made laws ALLAH can destroy laws .. ALLAH made gravity and can deactivate it ALLAh made human and made him needs food and needs to sleep .. ALLAH made us and made our day and month and year

    he has the full control on everything ...

    how can ALLAH control all of this at once ??

    how can he see all of us at once ??


    he is not like us ....... as we said

    he is over and above our brain's ability

    all we know about ALLAH is what he told us

    so what did he tell us ?? and how do you know ??

    where ??

    ok here it is

    it is the ISLAM

    www. islamway .com

    islam is the way to know ALLAH

    the only accepted religion from ALLAh

    islam came after bible

    bible was edited by humans and its has lots of human mistakes

    the real bible was there yes before MUHAMMAD the last prophet of ALLAH

    the bible was true when JESUS ( the prophet of ALLAH ) was there

    we all muslims believe in all books came from ALLAH before muhammad and before islam

    but we believe in those books was not edited or changed by humans

    those books all over the years and history that have one main message

    the message is ( there is only one god [ALLAH])

    the real bible says that MUHAMMAD will FOLLOW JESUS

    we all muslims believe that JESUS is a great prophet of ALLAH

    but he is just a human eats and pisses and sleeps

    another part from QURAAN

    59] The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was.

    [60] The Truth (comes) from thy Lord alone; so be not of those who doubt.


    so if you think that your god eats or sleeps or pisses and enters tolilette then how fool and unjust are you ?

    if you think the great god who made the planets is like us borns and needs a son then how fool and unjust are you ???

    we all muslims believe that MUHAMMAD is the last prophet for all people and he followed JESUS

    MUHAMMAD for other prophets is like the last rock in building to be completed

    at the end

    ALLAH is there great very great very very noone can imagine how great is he

    when you ask your self those question like why people die and why people steal .......

    tell your self that .. ALLAH has control on my brain and he made my cells he can stop me of thinking in this issue and he can force me to forget it

    but he lets me think in these things coz it is a test

    AND now .... i gave you the way and the only way to ALLAH


    read this translation of words of ALLAH in QURAAN :
    85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).


    this site has english section

    read about islam from trusted resources only and never give your ears to any enemy of islam

    only those who deserve will follow it and find the way to ALLAH

    try to find

    one more thing before i leave ...

    some people will say oooooh islaaaam ???

    ohhhh terrorists !!!!!

    killers !!

    well well

    if i got 10 childs and i gave them instructions that make the human perfect and good person

    if 2 or 3 of them or even the 10 became theives

    can you blame the instrctions or blame the childs coz they are not good and dont follow the right way ??

    not all muslims are good and not all muslims are real muslims

    and muslims by the way are humans who make rights and mistakes

    but islam is the rules and messages of ALLAH islam is surrender to your god who made you

    and a good thing you should know

    every muslims will see ALLAH in other life after death

    you dont see ALLAH in life coz if you see ALLAH there is no test then all is over

    only muslims will enter heavens and non muslims who die non muslims will enter hell forever and no helper



    151] Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want - We provide sustenance for you and for them - come not nigh to shameful deeds, whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.


    killing in wars is something else

    imagine u got a pretty wife and children and i came to your house to cut their necks or kill them
    will u say thank you or u gonna fight me and try to kill me ??..... ?

    the real terrorist can be usa who killed millions for one man or for petrol and land if i think using your way to think .

    thanks for ALLAH for islam and being muslim

    what was right in this letter its from ALLAH he caused me to do it

    and what was wrong here its from my self i ask ALLAH to forgive me im trying to help people .

    last thing now :

    MUHAMMAD the prophet of ALLAH was ( illiterate )

    he couldnt read or write

    and ALLAH chose him to carry his message to people

    lets read a part of the QURAAN

    a translation of it .

    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    [1] Qaf. By the Glorious Qur-an (Thou art Allah's Apostle).

    [2] But they wonder that there has come to them a Warner from among themselves. So the Unbelievers say: "This is a wonderful thing!"

    [3] "What! when we die and become dust, (shall we live again?) That is a (sort of) Return far (from our understanding)."

    [4] We already know how much of them the earth takes away: with Us is a Record guarding (the full account).

    [5] But they deny the Truth when it comes to them: so they are in a confused state.

    [6] Do they not look at the sky above them? How We have made it and adorned it, and there are no flaws in it?

    [7] And the earth; We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs),

    [8] To be observed and commemorated by every devotee turning (to Allah).

    [9] And We send down from the sky Rain charged with blessing, and We produce therewith Gardens and Grain for harvests;

    [10] And tall (and stately) palm-trees, with shoots of fruit-stalks, piled one over another;

    [11] As sustenance for (Allah's) Servants; and We give (new) life therewith to land that is dead: thus will be the Resurrection.

    [12] Before them was denied (the Hereafter) by the People of Nuh, the Companions of the Rass, the Thamud,

    [13] The 'Ad, Fir'aun, the Brethren of Lut,

    [14] The Companions of the Wood, and the People of Tubba'; each one (of them) rejected the Messengers, and My warning was duly fulfilled (in them).

    [15] Were We then weary with the first Creation, that they should be in confused doubt about a new Creation?

    [16] It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.

    [17] Behold, two (guardian angels) appointed to learn (his doings) learn (and note them), one sitting on the right and one on the left.

    [18] Not a word does he utter but there is a sentinel by him, ready (to note it).

    [19] And the stupor of death will bring Truth (before his eyes): "This was the thing which thou wast trying to escape!"

    [20] And the Trumpet shall be blown: that will be the Day whereof Warning (had been given).

    [21] And there will come forth every soul: with each will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness.

    [22] (It will be said

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    "Thou wast heedless of this, now have We removed thy veil, and sharp is thy sight this Day!"

    [23] And his Companion will say: "Here is (his record) ready with me!"

    [24] (The sentence will be

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    "Throw, throw into Hell every contumacious Rejecter, (of Allah)!

    [25] "Who forbade what was good, transgressed all bounds, cast doubts and suspicions;

    [26] "Who set up another god beside Allah: throw him into a severe Penalty."

    [27] His Companion will say: "Our Lord! I did not make him transgress, but he was (himself) far astray."

    [28] He will say: 'Dispute not with each other in My Presence: I had already in advance sent you Warning.

    [29] "The Word changes not before Me, and I do not the least injustice to My Servants."

    [30] One Day We will ask Hell, "Art thou filled to the full?" It will say, "Are there any more (to come)?"

    [31] And the Garden will be brought nigh to the Righteous; no more a thing distant.

    [32] (A voice will say

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    "This is what was promised for you, for everyone who turned (to Allah) in sincere repentance, who kept (His Law),

    [33] "Who feared (Allah) Most Gracious unseen, and brought a heart turned in devotion (to Him):

    [34] "Enter ye therein in Peace and Security; this is a Day of Eternal Life!"

    [35] There will be for them therein all that they wish, and more besides in Our Presence.

    [36] But how many generations before them did We destroy (for their sins); stronger in power than they? Then did they wander through the land: was there any place of escape (for them)?

    [37] Verily in this is a Message for any that has a heart and understanding or who gives ear and earnestly witnesses (the truth).

    [38] We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.

    [39] Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting,

    [40] And during part of the night, (also,) celebrate His praises and (so likewise) after the postures of adoration.

    [41] And listen for the Day when the Caller will call out from a place quite near,

    [42] The Day when they will hear a (mighty) Blast in (very) Truth: that will be the Day of Resurrection.

    [43] Verily it is We Who give Life and Death; and to Us is the Final Goal,

    [44] The Day when the Earth will be rent asunder, from (men) hurrying out: that will be a gathering together; quite easy for Us.

    [45] We know best what they say; and thou art not one to overawe them by force. So admonish with the Qur-an such as fear My Warning!

    Last edited: Jun 15, 2005
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  3. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Just a few simple questions, that beg for a few simple answers...

    How do you know that the prophet Muhammad was correct?
    How do you know he was honest?
    How do you know his words were recorded correctly?
    How do you know the book was faithfully preserved?
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  5. muhammad Registered Senior Member

    im sorry coz i may not be able to answer everyone here coz of my bad language

    but your questions are all answered in one thing

    just read what i typed

    and you read QURAAN or even parts from it and you will be sure it cant be written by humans or even ghosts

    it has incredible things and not normal words like human words

    and many scientific incredibles

    you must do effort to find way to your god and read on the islam way if you want to make sure and pass the test

    if you like to be lazy and close your eyes and mind and heart then dont expect a reward

    one little very little thing i tell you

    first of all MUHAMMAD the prophet of ALLAH was (illiterate)

    doesnt know how to read or write

    guess how he comes with that great book ?


    read about incridibles and miracles in quraan

    you can google it or search the internet for it make your key word

    incredible + quraan + scientific
    or miracle + quraan

    for example quraan told people the steps happens in a mother's womb with details and steps

    that was 1400 years ago and more

    quraan told peopel that earth is like a ball

    quraan told people that we see mountains we think its not moving while it moves like skies

    soooo many things guess how muhammad the illiterate prophet could know it

    and soo many things in this world you cant imagine in all fields of life eitehr social or economical or ..... etc

    miracles and things cant be made or known by a human

    ALLAH promised to keep his QURAAN non changed
    he says in quraan :


    9] We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).


    now im just a tool to give you people the way

    i showed you the door

    you have to walk to it

    i showed you the way

    you have to walk on it

    if you think you dont need it then dont blame anyone coz you will pay for your choice no one else

    thanks for ALLAH to be a muslim
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2005
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  7. muhammad Registered Senior Member

    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    [12] Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);

    [13] Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;

    [14] Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the Best to create!

    15] After that, at length ye will die.

    [16] Again, on the Day of Judgment, will ye be raised up.

    [17] And We have made, above you, seven tracts; and We are never unmindful of (Our) Creation.

    [18] And We send down water from the sky according to (due) measure, and We cause it to soak in the soil; and We certainly are able to drain it off (with ease).

    [19] With it We grow for you Gardens of date-palms and vines: in them have ye abundant fruits: and of them ye eat (and have enjoyment),
  8. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    I would never blame anyone but myself for my lack of belief.
    I accept accountability for all my actions (it's a side-effect of being agnostic).

    Thank you for the information, though. I will look into the miracles and scientific truths you claim to be in the Qu'ran.
  9. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    I understand why you would be upset with labeling Islam as a Terrorist Nation.
    There are violent people in all religions that use the religion to justify their actions.

    However, with very few exceptions I absolutely DO blame the parents for how the children grow up.
    Perhaps it is just a faulty analogy, or perhaps we disagree.
  10. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    I say we all agree with this guy so that he doesn't blow up a school bus or a day care center.
  11. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    What would make you think he has any violent tendencies at all?
    I see no signs or threats of violence.
  12. muhammad Registered Senior Member

    he is joking

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    you shoud get it
  13. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member


    All Gods are Man Made. Do you agree?

    People are products of their environment in most cases. Do you agree?

    Do you agree with Religious Fundamentalism?

    Do you believe in science?
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2005
  14. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

    Why is it, that every religious nut think their religious book is infallible?. Muhammed, not only was your leader mohamed close to or bordering pedophilia, by marrying a nine year old girl, but the freaking quran is full of contradictions.

    The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in
    heaven (Surah 85:21-22). If the Qur'an is a perfect book from Allah, then
    there shouldn't be any contradictions in it. Of course, the Muslims will
    deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do. Some of the
    contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly

    A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the
    possibility of another. The first one here is a good example. In Surah
    19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing. In 15:26, man is
    created from clay. Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since
    "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay." Both cannot be true.

    All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf
    Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

    What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

    "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
    "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
    "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created
    him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
    "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of
    nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
    "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man)
    becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

    Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

    "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from
    Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most
    trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all
    things," (2:256).

    "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people
    (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His
    Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent,
    it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate
    Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).

    "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the
    Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in
    wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish
    regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them:
    for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).

    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that
    forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor
    acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the
    Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves
    subdued," (9:29).

    Who was the first Muslim? Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

    "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to
    Allah in Islam," (39:12).
    "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed
    him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee."
    Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the
    mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord
    manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down
    in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee
    I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
    "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did
    Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except
    in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

    Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

    Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He
    forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah
    is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
    The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them
    from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they
    said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption,
    with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear
    signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest
    proofs of authority," (4:153).

    Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

    "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy
    they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them:
    there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast
    thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
    "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in
    justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and
    knoweth all, (6:115).
    None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but
    We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath
    power over all things?" (2:106).
    When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best
    what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of
    them understand not," (16:101).

    Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

    "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts
    followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the
    flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children
    of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was
    said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!-
    and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the
    body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily,
    many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
    Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down
    by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence:
    and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So
    he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him
    and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

    Is wine consumption good or bad?

    O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones,
    and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew
    such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
    (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in
    it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste
    never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey
    pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from
    their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for
    ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up
    their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
    Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will
    they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the
    beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine
    sealed," (83:22-25).

  15. Q25 Registered Senior Member

  16. Brutus1964 We are not alone! Registered Senior Member

    To me the statement “By their fruits you may know them” can sum up the worth of any religion. What are the fruits of Islam? Are Muslims a happy and prosperous people? Does Islam benefit and bless it's own believers as well as mankind in general? Do Muslims seek to convert people with love and faith or by force? Does Islam teach to love all man kind including their enemies? Do Muslims only fight to defend their people and their faith, or do they start wars in order to force and subjugate non-adherence to their own belief system. Are Muslims charitable even with those who do not share their faith? Do Muslim leaders seek to benefit and comfort their flock, and do they teach them love and understanding for others? Do Muslim's believe that God loves everyone and wants all his children to succeed? Please tell me what are the good fruits of Islam?
  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    A fair statement and a fair question.

    The ones I have met, yes.
    They are quite pleased with the life they have chosen.

    It does not benefit or harm those outside its religion any more or less than any other religion.
    Most of the Muslims I have known have a "Live and let Live" philosophy towards life in general, and will help individuals when they can.

    With reason.

    It teaches to respect all those who deserve and earn respect by dealing honestly with others, and disregard others.
    Above all else, Islam presches honesty.
    What they feel is teh truth may vary from what you feel is teh truth, but integrity is about adhering to your own truth, isn't it?

    That's an odd question.
    Muslims, as people, are individuals.
    There are some militant, psychotic Muslims that twist words and intentions of the Qu'ran to meet their needs, just as there are Chirstians that do the same.
    Do you judge Christians by actions of the abortion clinic bombers?
    Why judge Muslimd by terrorists?

    Those that I have known are.

    See my reply about loving all mankind.
    Judging by your questions and harsh judgements I would assume your religion doesn't but I know too many Mormons far too well to believe that.
    Why are YOU personally seemingly so intolerant and hateful of a Muslims?

    Again, refer back to my reply about lovong all mankind.

    Perhaps the billions of non-violent adherents rather than the few psychopaths that were converted as wayward youths like skinhead Christans.

    You are judging an entire Nation of billions of people based on the actions of a very small minority of people.
    It seems odd to me that YOU are off-handedly placing judgement upon a people for supposedly being judgemental.
    Perhaos you should look further into yourself and see where your anger comes from rather then point your finger at a religion and calling them angry.
  18. Brutus1964 We are not alone! Registered Senior Member

    One Raven

    I apologize for the harsh tone of my questions. I do agree with you and I am not judging all individuals Muslims. Neither do I hate Muslims. I know some very good peace loving, good hearted Muslims that would bend over backwards to help you. I think that Muslims especially in the United States have a very good perspective on their religion because they are free to worship how they choose. However the Muslims that live in predominantly Islamic countries paint a different pitcher. I Know that there are still many great Muslims in those countries as well, but I do think that Islam in general is in great need of a reformation just like what happened in Christendom. It was very healthy for Christians and it would also be for Muslims but it's going to be a long hard road before that will happen. A free Iraq could help that come about. maybe this war will be a catalyst for that but I'm not exactly hopeful. Islam must reform itself from within before any real changes will take place.

    No, I do not condone the actions of those that call themselves Christians who bomb abortion clinics, or commit other atrocities. They do great damage to the cause that they profess to advocate.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2005
  19. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    What has been happening in Iraq, Iran and Afganistan over the past twenty years is politically and economically motivated.
    Those who are behind it appeal mainly to angry oppressed young men with a great deal of aggression.
    Just like the cowardly chickenhawks prey on wayward pissed off middle-america young Christian men to manipulate them and aim their aggression at their own percived enemies (non-aryians) those such as bin Laden, al-Zarqawi, Azzam and al-Zawahiri manipulate and mislead these young men.
    They give them a reason for and a place to aim their aggression and a noble cause (be it racial purity or Islamic values & Allah's glory).
    Then, of course, the percieved enemies become real victims of violent acts.
    The big problem we have right now, is the Bush & Co. is playing the same game as al-Zawahiri, bin Laden and their groups and painting Islam as the enemy, when, in reality Islam is not the enemy of Christianity or America, nor is America the enemy of Islam or Islamic countries.
    As people fall further into the lies and deception, however, they BECOME each other's enemies and it becomes a self-fulfilling delusion (just as we are seeing in Iraq and America right now!).

    The number of militant Muslims is FAR outweighed by the number of peaceful Muslims, but as people get sucked into the stereotypes, that number grows.

    What needs to happen is NOT the war in Iraq, in fact that is exactly what shouldn't have happened.
    What needs to change is people need to stop believing the lies of the manipulators and start thinking for themselves.

    It is sad that this same story happens time and again, the wishes of the very few serve to sway and control the might of the masses.

    The balance needs to be dramatically shifted and the people need to start, for perhaps the first time in history, to think for themselves.
    This is my problem with religions in general, they tend to dissuade individual thought and instead place the power of decision in the hands of a few.

    Sorry for the rant, I was not trying to dump it all on you, you DO seem like a nice person.
    I just got on a roll.

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    I get a little too comfortable on the soapbox sometimes.
  20. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

    There really needs to be some rule against preaching.

    That being said, I'm surprised that that looooong post didn't come out of a Christian.

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  21. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member


    Welcome to sciforums. Perhaps you would answer a few questions please.

    Have you ever considered other religions?
    Were you raised from birth in an Islamic environment?
    Was Islam your religion of choice or was it imposed on you because of your family and culture?
    Do you realize that your long dissertation about Allah in this essentially non Islamic forum appears very naive and primitive?
    If you do indeed have an above average IQ are you also able to think critically and objectively and see that such a religion as Islam has no factual basis?

    Take care
  22. Bells Staff Member

    And yet you found the time to type such a long post. Why is that?

    Muhammad, welcome to sciforums. But honestly, if you're happy believing as you believe, good for you. I congratulate you on your faith. Being an atheist, I never ask such questions, because I don't believe. However, when your reply to valid questions is that 'I got no time', when you then go on to type an essay about the miracles in the Quran, failing to deal with the questions asked of you, then you're opening yourself up to abuse and ridicule. Ask Leo Volont, he's well versed in writing long diatribes and being ridiculed for failing to answer questions.

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    Don't worry if your english is bad, just try to answer the questions asked, because they are asked out of curiosity and because we wish to know.

    In all seriousness though, while I'm sure you think your religion is all wonderful, so do the other people here of other faiths and beliefs. Yours is but one of many. No better and no worse than any other. What I'd like to ask you is this.

    If there was no Quran.. actually this question is posed to all of religious faiths, if there were no Qurans, Torahs, Bibles, what would you believe in? So muhammad, if there was no Quran, would you still believe? If there were no religious texts at all, what would you believe in. Having read the Quran many years ago, I don't wish for you to answer the question based on your knowledge of the Quran.

    What I'd like to know is that if there had never been a Quran or any other religious text, would you still believe as you do today?
  23. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    That's a really interesting question, Bells.
    Have you asked it of yourself?
    Have you honestly questioned yourself if you truly are an atheist borne of lack of faith rather than in opposition of specific faith systems?
    I'm not sure I have challenged myself and lack of faith in such a way.
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