The Scientific Proof That God Exists!!

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by TruthSeeker, Feb 3, 2002.

  1. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Originally posted by Bambi
    Read the Proverbs in the Bible...

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    Originally posted by Jan Ardena
    You are right. But most of the scriptures about this part of his life is lost. It seems that a king destroyed some parts of the Bible at about 1500. Many teachings have been lost only for his own interest... what is common in the history of the human kind...

    Blessings,
    Nelson
     
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  3. Counterbalance Registered Senior Member

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    Jan, one first has to believe/accept that one can “hear the spiritual essence.” Ever. At all. That there is a good reason for doing so; a good reason to make that journey. Apparently you believe it and think you’ve determined a correct way to understand and experience “it.” In the paragraph above however you dismiss other’s need for proof, narrowly define what constitutes proof, and then tell them what they ought to be doing instead.

    Experience has taught me, (for whatever it’s worth to you), that as long as you try to tell others what they should do while simultaneously dismissing what (may) be important to them, you are crippling the communication and undermining your own efforts. This takes us back to square one: Is it more important to you to achieve effective communication, or do you have something else in mind--like trying to sound like an authority that need not consider in-depth just what it is that others understand, want or need. It sounds like you have a narrow view of the rest of the world.

    That is an opinion shared by you and others. Assert it until the cows come home, but it doesn’t make it true for everyone. If you understand that, then great. For now it doesn’t appear that you put much stock in the importance of understanding this.

    Such a statement about Atheism would be very offensive to many people of all persuasions. To suggest such and then to smooth it over doesn’t remove all doubt that you don’t think this is true.

    All the same, even though you don’t see violent aspects of the Middle East conflict(s) as being “religion,” the fact remains that there is a lot of “religion” involved in what goes on over there--and spills over onto the rest of the world. Religion as an institution, and religion as various religious sects wish to define it. Doesn’t make it any less connected to religion simply because you define the term “religion” in a different way. Tell me that what I see and understand or have even experienced isn’t true, and all you’ve done is dispute what I say. Nothing more. Tell the folks in Palestine and Israel that religion has nothing to do with it. Well, you can try to anyway.

    For most of the world, these atrocious acts are seen as having been spawned from hatred that has resulted from a difference in views about religion and how one group of religionists or other would ultimately come out on top--in control--in power--in order to shape the world around them the way they (and their religion) has determined it should be shaped... and ruled. All of this is very much a part of “religion” in many people’s opinion. To deny it doesn’t make it any less true for others.

    Secular? Perhaps. And a realistic view, imo. “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.” Simple, albeit general, truth.

    Strictness is also a term that is defined in various ways. And while it may be true that a generation of parents may have been inappropriately lax in raising their children, that has little to do with my point.

    Yes, it is. A public forum where people can post as or when they like. I certainly don’t feel obligated to post anything unless I want to. I don’t know which posters you’re referring to, but isn’t it possible that some just determine that it’s a waste of time to reply to all that’s being spewed by others? Some of us have better things to do with our time than to argue with people--many of which can’t/don’t stay on topic, or who have serious difficulty seeing anyone’s view but their own.

    As for the exchanges between Counterbalance and Jan Ardena, I’ve said all that I care to. Much of what you’ve written in each of your post here, I’ve already replied to in my first post to you. I can’t think of a good reason to repeat myself. Doesn’t mean I’m upset or taking my ball and going home. It means I value my time and that at this point I’m happy to leave your understanding of my view up to you.

    ~~~

    Peace,

    Counterbalance
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2002
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  5. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Tee hee

    *Originally posted by Bambi
    Or are you closed to the idea that your god doesn't exist?
    *

    I can't speak for TS, but pretty much all Christians at one point had to be open to the idea that whatever god might not exist.

    Since Christians aren't born, but are converted, we discovered that being "open" to the the idea that no God or god exists is a waste of time.

    *Originally posted by Cris
    Kind of, but the real intent of the bible is not for the benefit of people but for the glory of a god.
    *

    Exactly right.
    However, glorifying God is for the benefit of people.

    *One shouldn’t behave in a partcilular way because of fear of punishment.*

    Exactly true.
    In fact, those people who are "Christians" because of a fear of hell will discover that they completely missed the point.

    *The purposes of science and philosophy are not about providing moral or ethical guidance, and so of course you will not find those values there.*

    So where should one look then?

    *Pride isn’t the issue, it is evidence.*

    Actually, pride IS the issue.
    Who is so humble as to make a great "scientific" discovery, and then years later, admit to having been wrong all along?
    That kind of goes against the grain of "publish or perish."
    As a matter of fact, that would be "publish and perish."

    *Originally posted by Taken
    I do not think that conversion or discouragement from a particular faith should be an agenda.
    *

    That brings us back to the same old question, "What kind of Christian are you, again?"

    *That is like the equivalent of me telling a Pagan, or an athiest they are delusional, or brain washed or clinging to fantasy.*

    They are.

    *Originally posted by Cris
    Ah but you've set a high standard and I'm having trouble keeping up.
    *

    That's only because it's close enough for you to recognize as a high standard.
    Any higher and it would start looking low to you, because of complete inability to comprehend.

    *In a legal trial it is up to the prosecutor to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubt, in this scenario you are the prosecutor. Prove your case.*

    Ahh, but no.
    The judge is God, the defense attorney is Jesus, the prosecutor, i.e. the accuser, is Satan.
    If you stand against Jesus, then the onus is on you to prove your case.

    *For you to show that I am delusional you must demonstrate my alleged delusional beliefs. But that will be difficult because I am not claiming a belief but just a disbelief in your claims. *

    That's been done many times.
    However, the nature of delusion is that delusion cannot be perceived by the delusional.

    *Originally posted by Bambi
    I don't come here to learn what a particular holy book has to say (though it's one of the side-effects of talking to religionists). Rather, I'm more interested in why a given religionist actually chooses a particular holy book as their source of truth and as the foundation for their view of the universe and everything in it.
    *

    That's like asking someone why they like Shakespeare, but insisting that they not give you any examples, and to leave Shakespeare out of the discussion, thank-you-very-much.

    *I also harbor vague hopes of maybe at least convincing a couple religionists to consider my world-view as an alternative.*

    Huge numbers of Christians have tried it and found it sadly lacking.
    However, your best bet in attempting to convert Christians to atheism is to go after Christians who never read their Bibles, and who hold most of their doctrines in contradiction to the Bible.

    *We don't need religion. What we need is learning. - me *

    I'm still puzzled why you post in the religion forum, from your perspective, that is.
    Since atheism is a religion, I can see why you do it, but from your perspective, it must be like a contradiction in terms.

    Don't take that as a hint that you should leave, since I appreciate your presence here, in that you are quite intelligent, and intelligent enough to admit things that lesser people wouldn't.

    *Originally posted by Taken
    Given that Tony was like haveing 4 or 5
    *

    Like 4 or 5? Wow.

    *Originally posted by Counterbalance
    At the very least, the believer is spreading a "message" that is not rational in the mind of the non-believer.
    *

    That is correct.
    The message is non-rational.
    Note however, that "irrational" and "non-rational" are both opposites of "rational," but how can that be?
    The purely rational mind gags on three opposites.

    The "rational" atheist claims that Christianity is irrational, whereas if Christianity is non-rational, such an atheist would be wrong.

    *Persistent ignorance requires a persistent and particularly firm response.*

    So you can see where we're coming from.

    *Originally posted by Taken
    I was pointing out some agression that is being shown by a few at a few and seems to be escalating in the abscense of Tony to take it out on.
    *

    Oh no, can't take a little bit of pressure?
    Well relax, I can take the heat, even from you.

    *It quite simply is not misinterpretation when someone is trying to explain their thoughts in a calm and polite way to tell them they are void of thought process or brain washed. I didn't like it when Tony did it*

    That's correct; it isn't misinterpretation.
    Besides, at what point were you calm and polite?
    You should read your first hundred or so posts, particularly the ones you directed at me.

    *Originally posted by Jan Ardena
    Read Bhagavad Gita. Therein you will find all the evidence you need.
    *

    Except that the BG doesn't mention the concept of lying.
    That's a significant oversight for such an "significant" book.

    *Originally posted by Counterbalance
    Here we will part paths again if you choose to have faith that the situation will improve, and I choose to have a little unconditional hope
    *

    Funny.

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    (Hebrews 11:1, KJV).

    *This past Christmas I heard someone relate the story of the birth of Christ at a family gathering, and for the first time ever in my recollection the storyteller departed from reading only scripture and paused to briefly discuss the long held belief that Christ had been born on December 25th, and the possibility that that might not be true, and why it might not be true.*

    A step in the right direction.
    Have you considered that the wise men depicted in the nativity scenes weren't there, either?
    There are a whole huge pile of "long-held" beliefs that are just pure fiction.

    *This also requires that the would-be converter have a very good understanding of where the non-believer is coming from--which means avoiding making intentionally insulting assumptions, and too many assumptions, period.*

    You're forgetting that the "would-be converter" is him/herself converted and thus WAS where the non-believer is coming from.

    *Originally posted by Teg
    I am willing. So long as you don't claim that dinosaurs existed less than 6,000 years ago, I am willing to hear you out.
    *

    IOW, you are only willing to hear what you already believe.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Tee hee

    *Originally posted by Jan Ardena
    Except that the BG doesn't mention the concept of lying.
    That's a significant oversight for such an "significant" book.


    Ah! Tony1, where have you been hiding?

    What is your concept of lying?
    To me, the basis of the act of lieing, is ignorance.
    To this, the BG explains ignorance in perfect detail.

    Love

    Jan Ardena.
     
  8. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    tony1,

    You wrote for Taken:
    I can answer this question...

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    Let's see...

    She is a Gnostic Christian!

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  9. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Since atheism is a religion, I can see why you do it, but from your perspective, it must be like a contradiction in terms.

    Atheism is not a religion, it is an absense thereof.
     
  10. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Athiesm is a religion in the sense that bald is a hairstyle.
     
  11. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Xev,

    Perfect definition!

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    Btw... are you coming to my party...

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    bbcboy is coming with lots of girls...

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  12. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Er....ooops, that should have read 'hair color'

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    Nelson:
    Of course I will come. Shall I bring booze?

    Oh dear, I don't think I'm old enough to do that. I'll bring music.

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  13. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    462
    Re: Re: GOD is GOD Supreme!




    Cris
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2002
  14. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    God....you are so Arrogant. Tone your voice down. Did you ever happen to think that it is possible that you are the one being fooled? That you are the one being deceived? Ofcoarse not, couldn't be....I mean you quote the Bible in Big Bold Red Letters. It must be the True Holy Spirit talking thru you. Obviously

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  15. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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  16. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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    1,104
    I look forward to your party honey but you won't be able to touch any of those girls unless you marry em.

    Just teasing

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    I think you put some points across very well here and others fall down because of the amount of passion with which you feel your convictions. This can be a difficult combination with which to bring enlightenment to people.

    We can all respect you and your beliefs, especially when we witness such passion

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    I am afraid for you that you leave yourself open to some derision or ridicule at times.

    It is enough for us that you have faith

    We all of us have faith in something and it is usually an higher power than ourselves or within ourselves. Some of us don't believe that power is a or any god. You can be better welcomed wanted and accepted here and everywhere if you can respect the beliefs of others.

    Remember that faith provides comfort. Your faith can provide comfort to others. If others already lie in peaceful slumber, then trying to force a different pilow on them makes them grumpy and snappy See?

    Live in peace with your god and may he comfort you always for as long as you need him. As long as you believe he exists, then he does. In your heart and your spirit.

    Some of us don't agree with that interpretation That's all.

    Respect to you my friend. Your name is truth seeker, you will find other truths on your path. Continue to seek

    Love Bill
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2002
  17. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    462
    Light Being

    Being of Light, your sure are in the dark!

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    That what I was saying, there is a greater wisdom and knowledge above yours! You are a 'babe in the woods', not knowing the God of Creation, and that the Bible is the Word of GOD! Men are proud, and is very narrow minded, dead spiritaully, and need inlightenment of the 'absolute truth!' Don't be wise in your own eyes! Because your wisdom and knowledge is foolishness before the Holy GOD! And He is very real, and that, inspite of Sir. Loone! Beware that God is well in charge of all, and the one decieved is "Light being". He is in me, so take care!

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    I only serve Him! The Lord!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2002
  18. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    462
    Adam- that is fallen nature!

    Adam, "shoeflaps", : The Word of God will judge you! The lies of the Devil will not stand before that which is of God and His Word!

    Adam needs to turn to his Creator, who really care for you!

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    Je'sus is the worlds only real hope of any hope of survivl!

    Remember, what ever I say about what God said, is not of me but from the Bible truths! Read the Bible for your self! Many here, even here have at lease read some of it, if not much of the Bible for them selves! The truth of Scripture is supierior to that of any man, or devil! GOD alone is supreme!

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  19. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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  20. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    The Devil is a liar and the ruth is not in him!

    Adam, God is no one to play around with! You need to know the truth, the absolute truth, and the truth shall set you free from the lies of the Devil and of your closed mind!

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    Know that there is so much you do not know about your existance on this Earth, and that niether you nor science knows all there is to know, and that is imposible to know beyond your capassity to understand, that in the supernatural! GOD is the truth, and you will stand before Him yourself one day soon! But take Jesus with you! If not, your doomed! Jesus saves Adams and Caines!
     
  21. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    You know, whenever I see Loone's posts I can't but imagine some stoned athiest giggling hystericaly as he types.

    I was going to start babbling about Cthulhu, but I think I will just watch the festivities. No wait, I will cheer Adam on!

    Go A-dam! Go A-dam! Go A-dam! Wooo wooo woo!

    This is bloody hilarious.
     
  22. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    bbcboy,

    Thanks for your kind words!

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    You can be sure that even below storms,
    I'll stand still and true to myself.

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  23. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Sir Loone, you are in danger of falling into Great Googly-Moogly's frothy firepit of ultimate deep danky doom-doom! Repent! Abandon your false god, it is the True Devil! Come and join our crusade against the evils od christendom! Come and burn some unvbelievers with us! There are millions of us, and we, the Faithful, will overcome all opposition and false gods and claim the Earth!

    PS: If you join before June 15th, YOU may be the lucky winner of your very own Hermaphrodite Harem!

     

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