The Truth About Islam

I am quite frankly, sick and tired, of this propoganda being spread about Islam's brilliance by PM. So I think it is about time, we look at it objectively.

What I am about to reveal in this thread, about Islam, will probably make you sick, maybe even resent Islam, and muslims. However, that would be irrational, as Islam itself, though it's origins are barbaric, and primitive, is not an entirely "evil" religion, although it does come close to one.

Having said that, it is an extremely primitive religion, and in some way, its the closest thesis we have to the Clingon empire.

Let us analyze some passages from Islam's most holiest of books, the Quran, and the Hadeeth. It is difficult to arrive at a consensus on Islam, as there are so many contradictions. Where it says X is Y, it will contradict it by saying X is Z later. Example "Love one another" then "Kill the non-believers"

Passages from the Quran:

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors”. 2:190

- This passage is advocting violence for the interest of God. However, at the same time, it says it should be in limitation? What are those limitations?

“And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter” 2:191

- This statement which follows abvocates murder against wrong doers. So what happend to the limitation as prescribed above.

“And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression”. 2:193

- This suggests a continued campaign against oppressors, sounds like the Jihad's of today. However, the 2nd line, does not entirely suggest oppression, as it associates oppression with "Faith in Allah" In other words, let the "Faith in Allah" prevail over the oppressors. Untill they cease their hostility. Does oppressors mean non-muslims in this context, and their hostility, their alternate beliefs?

“Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not” 2:216

- This suggests, we are suppose to fight, and it's God's will. There is also more deeper implications felt by this passage. That our emotional being that is marred by inflicting pain on others, is our ignorance, and we should not let that come in our way.

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

- This is a disturbing passage. If one fights for Islam, he is right, and he will be rewarded, in life, or after life. It sounds like brainwashing.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" 9:29

- My suspicision is confirmed. This passage blatently suggests, violence against non-muslims, untill they convert to Islam. Thus "Islamic fundamentalists" that force conversions with viloence, are in fact, being instructed to do, from Islam itself.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” 9:5

- This further reinforces the above passage, and here it suggests a pro-active role of Islamic conversions, by seeking non muslims, and converting them. Thus, the Islamic crusades, and how it spread, by forcing non-muslims to convert, or perish, is preached in this passage.

The Hadeeth

The Hadeeth are the sayings of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam.
Muhammed is reveered as a great saint, a torchbearer of love and peace, and some of his teaching indeed do preach love. At the same time, some his teachings are full of malice and hate and he sounds like am evil tyrant.
Let's examine them:

Ibn Haban in his Sahih, vol. 14, p. 529, narrates: Muhammad said: “I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter.”

- I am not sure what to make of this. He is a prophet of God, yet he's sent for slaughter?

In his Musnad (vol. 2, p. 50) Imam Ahmed narrates by Ibn Omar: “the Prophet said: ‘I was sent by the sword proceeding the judgment day and my livelihood is in the shadow of my spear and humiliation and submission are on those who disobey me.’”

- Here he clearly outlines his agenda. He professes to being sent be God, and he will slaughter and humilate those who disobey him. That sounds more like, being sent by Satan.

Omar Ibn al-Khatab said: “I heard the prophet of Allah saying: ‘I will cast Jews and Christians out of the peninsula and I won’t leave any one in it but Muslims.’” (Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 2, No. 28, from the Muhaddith program[2])

- That sounds like Hitler almost. Muhammed is clearly outlining an ethnic cleansing initative. Something that we today, look at, as evil.

Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ibn al’Ashraf), “Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on.” (El beddayah wa alnihaya – Ibn Katheer – vol. 4 – in the chapter on killing Ka’ab bin al’Ashraf)

- That is Hitler!

We will not examine some of the murders commited by Muhammed, and his followers, simply against perpetrators of free-speech:

Ibn Ishak said: “The apostle said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.” Thereupon Muhayyisa ãÍíÕÉ b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa ÍæíÕÉ was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?’ Muhayyisa answered, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.’” (El badyah wa alnihaya – Ibn Katheer – vol. 4 – in the chapter on killing Ka’ab bin al’Ashraf)2

`Umayr’s Expedition To Kill Abu Afak
Mohammad once killed a man named (al-Harith b. Suwayd). When Abu Afak wrote a poem objecting to the murder, Muhammad said, “Who will deal with this rascal for me?” Whereupon Salim b. Umayr, brother of B. Amr b. Auf, one of the “weepers”, went forth and killed him. (Ibn Hisham – Dar el jeel Beirut – 1411 –Vol. 6 - UMAYR’S EXPEDITION TO KILL ABU AFAK)

- Here, someone is killed, who objected to the murder of the Jewish merchant - by the order of Muhammed himself. Is Muhammed preaching the message of God, or his own message of sheer evil.

UMAYR B. 3adi JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN

After Abu Afak was murdered, Asma wrote a poem blaming Islam and its followers of killing their opponenets.
When Muhammad heard what she had said he said, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” Ummayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, “You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!” When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, so Umayr went back to his people. Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [girl] Marwan. She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, “I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don’t keep me waiting.” That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma.
The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam.”
(Ibn Katheer el bedayah wa alnehaya – vol. 5 – in the mention of the year 11 of hijrah also found in- Ibn Hisham – dar al jeel Beirut – vol. 6 UMAYR B. ADIYY’S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN)

- This particular case, clearly demonstrates, Islam spread by violence and murder and confirms the passages we have examined in the Quran.

4 Killing of a slave woman.
A blind man had a slave who he had taken a concubine, the mother of his children, who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop.
One night she began to slander the Prophet and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about this. He assembled the people and said: “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up.” The man stood up. He sat before the Prophet and said: “Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet said: “Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.”
(Naylu Al’wtar - Al-Shawkani – Al muneeriah pulishing – Cairo – Vol 7 – Book of Drinking – Chapter on Killing Of One who declared a warning to the prophet - also in Sunan Abi Daowd – Markaz Al’bhath wa aldersat althkafiah – Vol 2 – Chapter the judgment on one who swore to the prophet) -

- An account of the extreme intolerance and fanatacism of Islam.

5 `Amr B Umayya EXPEDITION
Once Muhammad sent one of his followers named `Amr, to murder Muhammad’s enemy Abu Sufyan. However, the assassination attempt failed. As he returned home, he met a one-eyed shepherd. The shepherd and the Muslim man both identified themselves as members of the same Arab clan. Prior to going asleep, the shepherd said that he would never become a Muslim. Umayya waited for the shepherd to fall asleep and thereafter: ”as soon as the bedouin was asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has been killed.”
Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He relates.... ”He [Muhammad] asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me.”

- I am lost for words. This is too much.

After Muhammed's death, his teaching were spread by Abu Bakr (the first caliph) by proporgating it by wars, even against muslims themselves, forcing them to pay dues that Muhammed used to collect for himself(as related in the Qur’an 9:103).

Abd Allah ibn Sa’ed (Omr ibn al-Khatab servant) said: “Arab Christians are not Christians, I am not leaving them until they become Muslims or I cut their throats.” (Kanzu ‘umal – al mutka al hindi – vol. 4, No. 11770)
Omar ibn al-Khatab (the second caliph)
Abd Allah ibn Sa’ed (Omr ibn al-Khatab servant) said: “Arab Christians are not Christians, I am not leaving them until they become Muslims or I cut their throats.” (Kanzu ‘umal – al mutka al hindi – vol. 4, No. 11770)
Khalid ibn al-Walid (the unsheathed sword of Allah)
The letter of Khalid Ibn al-Walid to the people of Madain:
“From Khaled ibn al-Walid to Marazebah the people of Faris [Persian people] peace be to those who follow the guidance. Praise God that your servants left you and you lost your possession and have been weakened. Anyone who prayed our prayer and accepted our place of prayer to the East [Qiblah] and ate our sacrifice that would be a true Muslim who has the same privileges and duties as us. When you receive my letter send me the ransom for the hostage we hold and asked for a covenant, or in the name of the God who there is no other god like him I will send you people who love to die as you love to live."

During the battle with the Persians, and it was very tough war, Khaled said: “O Allah, if you give us victory over them, I swear I won’t leave one of them alive and I will run their river with their blood.”
Then when Allah gave them victory, Khaled send people to call for capturing everyone and asking Muslims not to kill anyone except who refuses to submit. After they captured them, they (the Persians) were brought to the river and were beheaded. The Muslims did that for three days till they had killed 70000.

(Abu Bakr – By Muhammad Rashid Rida – “Muhaddith Program”[2] – And Bedaya wa nehaya –Ibn Katheer – In the mention of year 12 of Hijrah “Muhaddith”)

- I have only quoted a small part of the Quran and the Hadeeth, and there is no need to quote more. It is clear, how barbaric, primitive, and uncultured Islam is. It preaches violence, murder, deceit, war, religious conversion, extreme intolerance and hate. It has been in its past, and even today, the true followers of Islam, are continuing its legacy, or its curse, in the form of the Taliban, Sharia Law, Al - Quaida.

This does not mean Muslims of today are evil however. The belief system of Islam has been refined today for the modern folk, and the messages of peace, or the good, you could call it, has been precipitated from the venom and the hate.

 

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Crazymikey, many of those passages you quote are taken out of context. If you read the surrounding text, you will see that violence is encouraged only as a response to violence, or the transgression of treaties. Our resident Muslim (the proud one) requires a certain form for discussion of the Quran:

I have found only two exceptions that I cannot explain:

Quoted from here I have included the verse before and after the quoted verse which is in bold text.
........................................................................................

9. at-Taubah: Repentance​

28 O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

It says fight them (could be verbally), until they pay a tribute (like a tax?), so you can be an unbeliever if you pay the tax, sounds unfair, but not too harsh. I would like to know a muslims take on this.

and this one-

122 And the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may gain sound knowledge in religion, and that they may warn their folk when they return to them, so that they may beware.

123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

124 And whenever a surah is revealed there are some of them who say: Which one of you hath thus increased in faith ? As for those who believe, it hath increased them in faith and they rejoice (therefor).

This is the most disturbing one, and could be justification for all kinds of violence.

 

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Hmmmm, Hitler was a muslim.......... That figures!

 

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oh, was he?

 

He might as well have been - He hated jews and he was a savage bastard.

 

I think Hitler was Roman Catholic,
heres something on Islam,its just as bad xianity in some ways
www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/

 

I do not think they have been taken out of context. I have acknowledged the first quotes as the measure against "wrong doers". I can see it is perhaps righteous to fight against wrong, but what exactly is wrong as per Islamic standards? If you examine this passage:

It has linked hostility, and oppression, to the faith in Allah. Therefore, their wrongdoers may only be people who do not practice the faith in Allah, or Islam. If you think this is jumping to conclusions. Then look at this passage:

This removes all shadows of doubt really. Here it blatently says, fight those who do not believe in Islam, or it's written word, untill they are subdued, and pay an Islamic tax.

Now look at this:

There should be no doubt now, that the wrong doers as outlined above, are non-muslims and their non-islamic beliefs. Here it suggests, even after the struggle is over, go forth and seek them, wherever they are, and only spare them, if they convert to Islam.

So, I do not agree, I have taken anything out of context. All of the passages above, are consistent with each other, and further more, consistent with the Hadeeth, and consistent with the history of violence and forced conversions in Islam, and consistent with the Islamic fundamentalism of today.

So it is only logically follows, that Islam IS actually preaching this. As you've outlined some passages, where it shows this too. It is an open and shut case really.

 

It certainly is crazymickey. The case is closed watertight.

Islam is the worlds "Wolf in sheeps clothing" religion.

It claims to be peaceful while being the worlds biggest oppressive and violent organisation .... Case closed!

 

that's right boys. islam is a very oppressive religion and very unreasonable. it's also barbaric and atrocious.

too bad for you, but it's the fastest growing religion in the world. maybe today's people are oppressive, unreasonable, ruthless, and barbaric. lol

 

not too fast my white supermicst christian fanatic friend. hahaha

 

the jews have been attacked over and over again throughout history, many of them not muslims.

and why don't you prove me wrong with that overconfidence of yours?

 

he can't prove anything, you are talking to a guy who thinks that world is flat and 6000 years old. Who thinks that isalmic armies are at his door and he build a big fence around his house and it says *muslims stay away* he looks for foreigners in england and if they look dark he automatically assumes that they are muslim terrorists..........to him every one who looks brown or with the beard is muslims terrorists......guy has no formal education, no historical knowledge and no sense of future.........he can't asnwer you. He will babble bunch of things and every thing will turn down to three topics from him, 1 stonning of women. 2) 9/11 and 3) how islam treats women ( yes again ),. lol. He can't do anything about it, he is just handicap when it comes down to talk sense.

 

lol

i think i noticed that too

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Maybe it is, but it will never overpower secularism.

 

I'm not a christian fanatic, I might not even be white for all you know.

You Racist twat.

 

Prove you wrong about what?

Hitler hated Jews?? Of course he did.

Can't you recognise a sarcastic comment when you read one, or was it too clever for you?

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And you call that talking sense?

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ya! I do.

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Come on, don't be ashamed of yourself....No need to hide the white robe and the cone head peice......Wear it proudly, it's the only culture you have.

 

I'm not ashamed of anything, and my culture and beliefs are far superior to anything you are ever likely to possess.

Thank you for your concern anyway