The unmanned Mars missions were probably faked

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by FatFreddy, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Excerpted from an old post, with FatFreddy signs highlighted:
    ====================
    Top Signs you are Reading Woo

    Cranks often enjoy posting on science forums. Once they feel the thrill of making up some pseudoscientific woo, telling it to a friend and having the friend think they are clever - they come on line, find a science forum and post away, hoping for kudos and compliments on their imagination and intelligence. We see them here all the time.

    But how can you tell a true crank from someone who is just confused, or someone who has a reasonable idea that is just not developed? How can you tell plain old errors from woo? Below is a guide to help with that decision. It lists several characteristics of cranks. If you see one of these characteristics, be wary. If you see several, well - either ignore the fellow or have some fun with him.

    ============================

    2) The sheeple claim. Once a crank uses the word "sheeple" for the first time - to distinguish his own brilliance from the dull conformity of all the other "sheep" on a given forum - you know he's all woo. Use of this word is nearly inevitable for some types of cranks, especially 9/11 truthers and UFO believers.

    5) The retcon. In comic books and science fiction, the "retroactive continuity" trick is often used to clear up previous continuity problems.. It is in effect saying "what REALLY happened is . . . ." Perhaps the most famous retcon is in episode V of Star Wars, where Obi-Wan tells Luke "well, yes, I told you your father was dead, but in fact turns out he's Darth Vader due to this complex explanation." On-line, people often use this angle to claim "Yes, I may have said this, but what I really meant was . . ." For example, a 9/11 conspiracy theorist might claim that no steel building has ever collapsed due to fire. When examples are presented, he might change his story to "what I REALLY meant was that no TALL steel building has ever collapsed; that was obvious from my post."

    6) The secret government conspiracy. Sometimes when a crank is challenged, and he feels he is unable to defend his point further, he will pull out the government conspiracy. He WOULD have more proof for his claim, you see, but the government is trying to suppress the information because blah blah blah. In general you will get no more useful information after this point, since if you try, he will accuse YOU of being part of the conspiracy.

    7) Occam's Glue. In general, Occam's Razor describes the general rule that the simplest explanation that explains something is usually the correct one. Cranks use a version of that I call Occam's Glue - if something CAN be the explanation, it must be the explanation, even if simpler explanations suffice. UFO believers use this one a lot. "Yes, it could have been aircraft lights, or a meteor, or a planet, or low clouds - but how can all those explanations always be true? Some MUST be space aliens."

    8) Woo prejudice. Oddly, most cranks will reject other people's woo quite strongly even when it is closely related. "There's no possible way those objects could be space aliens. They were clearly angels." This, while common, unfortunately does not help distinguish a crank from anyone else, since most people reject woo once it's clear that that's what it is.

    9) Magical thinking. If part of someone's proof for their woo is the list of wondrous boons that this technology will grant mankind, the odds are high that he or she is engaging in magical thinking - the belief that a fervent desire for something will make it valid. Cold fusion believers, for example, often will list all the beneficial changes in society that cold fusion will bring about - and therefore declare that it is a real power source.

    10) The Googleblast. Some cranks, facing skepticism, will make a somewhat late attempt to justify woo by searching the Internet for support. They cannot, of course, do any serious research, since that would tend to disprove their woo. However since anything is available on the Internet, they can always find something to at least marginally support them. Their cycle goes like this: Read (forum) Search (google) Pick (something that says something close to what they are claiming) Post (link to related information.) This read-search-pick-post cycle can go on for dozens of posts. They feel that by posting enough marginally related links they have found independent proof of their claim.

    14) Prove Me Wrong. Cranks who propose an unusual theory (say, that UFO's are space aliens) will often not listen to alternative explanations that better explain the data. Instead they will propose their woo and ask "can you prove that that's NOT what's happening? Can you prove that that sighting was just a weather balloon?" This lets them sit back and wait for someone to provide an impossible level of proof for the more-reasonable explanation.

    15) As seen on TV! Links to Youtube videos are one of the hallmarks of cranks. Whether this is due to cranks getting most of their information from videos, or whether it is due to the fondness of conspiracy theorists for Youtube, masses of Youtube links are one of the most common signs of the crank.

    16) The argument from incredulity (i.e. "if I can't understand it, it is incorrect - and thus the explanation that I DO understand must be the correct one") is very common among cranks. Since they invariably have a very high impression of their own intelligence, any theory/explanation/process they do not understand must be incorrect.

    And last but not least:

    17) The Grand Trampling Exit. Often cranks, once they have realized that they are not going to get kudos and attaboys for their unconventional thinking, will make a "final post" that is usually along the lines of "you're all a bunch of idiots! I'm going to leave this once and for all, and deny you all the pleasure of my company. Instead I am going to post on a board where intelligent people have open minds!"

    Reading the Grand Trampling Exit, readers of the forum might be tempted to breathe a sigh of relief as the signal to noise ratio improves. However this relief is often short-lived. Cranks love attention, and thus more often than not they come back sometime later, often with a statement along the lines of "well, I just had to say one more . . ." or "I realized you wanted me to leave, so I'm going to stick around to get back at you!"
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.businessinsider.com/psy...ories-during-uncertain-times-2020-4?r=AU&IR=T

    A psychologist explains why people cling to conspiracy theories during uncertain times:

    • Conspiracy theories frequently surface during times of uncertainty, and especially in the aftermath of mass shootings or other tragic events.
    • Dr. John Grohol, a psychologist and the founder of Psych Central, says that conspiracy theorists come up with ideas out of thin air to match whatever 'fact' they think is true, and often use paranoia-based beliefs to convince others.
    • He says that these people tend to be uncooperative, distrustful, and socially isolated — which is why believing in a conspiracy theory with strangers on the internet can give them a sense of belonging.
    Conspiracy theories are as old as time, but it's only in more recent years that psychologists have begun to unravel the belief that some people have in them. According to researcher Goertzel (1994), conspiracy theories are explanations that refer to hidden groups working in secret to achieve sinister objectives.

    extract:
    Conspiracy theories make a person feel special
    Lantian et al.'s (2017) research examined the role of a person's 'need for uniqueness' and a belief of conspiracy theories, and found a correlation.

    We argue that people high in need for uniqueness should be more likely than others to endorse conspiracy beliefs because conspiracy theories represent the possession of unconventional and potentially scarce information. […] Moreover, conspiracy theories rely on narratives that refer to secret knowledge (Mason, 2002) or information, which, by definition, is not accessible to everyone, otherwise it would not be a secret and it would be a well-known fact.


    People who believe in conspiracy theories are likely more alienated and socially isolated
    Moulding et al. (2016) also dug into the characteristics of people who believe in conspiracy theories in two studies.

    It has been noted that individuals who endorse conspiracy theories are likely to be higher in powerlessness, social isolation, and 'anomia,' which is broadly defined as a subjective disengagement from social norms.

    Such disengagement from the normative social order may result in greater conspiratorial thinking for a number of related reasons. First, individuals who feel alienated may consequently reject conventional explanations of events, as they reject the legitimacy of the source of these explanations. Due to these individuals feeling alienated from their peers, they may also turn to conspiracist groups for a sense of belonging and community, or to marginalized subcultures in which conspiracy theories are potentially more rife.


    Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts
    You can't really argue with people who believe in conspiracy theories, because their beliefs aren't rational. Instead, they are often fear- or paranoia-based beliefs that, when confronted with contrarian factual evidence, will dismiss both the evidence and the messenger who brings it.2 That's because conspiracy theories are driven by the people who believe and spread them and their own psychological makeup — not on the factual support or logical reasoning of the theory itself.

    Conspiracy theories aren't going away, for as long as there are people who have a need to believe in them, they will continue to expand and thrive. The Internet and social media sites such as Facebook have only made such theories even easier to spread. Save your breath arguing with people who believe in them, as no amount of facts will dissuade them from their false belief.

    more at link...
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    You take it easy Freddy and perhaps take a disprin and have a good lie down, OK? .

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  5. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/31/are-you-a-mind-controlled-cia-stooge-paul-craig-roberts/
    (excerpt)
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Do you smirk when you hear someone question the official stories of Orlando, San Bernardino, Paris or Nice? Do you feel superior to 2,500 architects and engineers, to firefighters, commercial and military pilots, physicists and chemists, and former high government officials who have raised doubts about 9/11? If so, you reflect the profile of a mind-controlled CIA stooge.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id196.html
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/weapo...ory-disinformation-agents-and-the-cia/5524552
    http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/2012/03/radical-rethinking-of-conspiracy.html
    https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence...sychology/278-part-1-preface-and-introduction
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0002764209353279?journalCode=absb
    https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo86.htm
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...G0bJaNUpz5pEiJdgW8W6U29dWWoZ_E9NckPfy6DYqncJY
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah plenty of nonsensical conspiracy driven crap on the web, to satisfy those like yourself Freddy.

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    Come see me in 5 years time Freddy and tell me some more of your comical conspiracy fairy tales.

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    I promise not to laugh.

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  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    PS: Freddy, how did you find getting out of bed this morning, with all this conspiracy raging around us?

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  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Proof the Illuminati is real!
     
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  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I am quite happy that a Holocaust denier thinks I am a "stooge" and not someone who subscribes to his hateful beliefs.
     
  12. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    907
    I haven't come to any firm conclusions about this. All I'm doing is looking at the big picture objectively.
    http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0

    Saying I have hateful beliefs misrepresents my position.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't claim that. Re-read my post.
     
  14. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    We call that psychotic delusional syndrome.
    Now some facts for you to mull over, all overwhelmingly, if not then totally certain as detailed by empirical evidence....The Moon landings did take place...6 of them, with one failure....9/11 was a religiously inspired cowardly attack on civilians by ratbags, that killed 3000 people.....and any other imagined conspiracy nonsense you have read on one of your conspiracy sites, for ignorant individuals, on any other accepted matter.
    Not sure about hateful, but possibly dangerous, certainly crazy, inane, pathetic.
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.fastcompany.com/90375425/apollo-11-landed-moon-how-you-can-be-sure-sorry-conspiracy
    extracts:
    Apollo 11 DID LAND ON THE MOON: [Sorry Conspiracy Nuts]


    The United States sent astronauts to the Moon, they landed, they walked around, they drove around, they deployed lots of instruments, they packed up nearly half a ton of Moon rocks, and they flew home.

    No silly conspiracy was involved.

    There were no Hollywood movie sets.


    Not that the smart person asking the question has any doubts, mind you, but how do we know we went, anyway?

    It’s a little like asking how we know there was a Revolutionary War. Where’s the evidence? Maybe it’s just made up by the current government to force us to think about America in a particular way.

    How do we know there was a Titanic that sank?

    And by the way, when I go to the battlefields at Gettysburg—or at Normandy, for that matter—they don’t look much like battlefields to me. Can you prove we fought a Civil War? World War II?

    In the case of Apollo, in the case of the race to the Moon, there is a perfect reply.

    The race to the Moon in the 1960s was, in fact, an actual race.

    The success of the Soviet space program—from Sputnik to Strelka and Belka to Yuri Gagarin—was the reason for Apollo. John Kennedy launched America to the Moon precisely to beat the Russians to the Moon.

    When Kennedy was frustrated with the fact that the Soviets were first to achieve every important milestone in space, he asked Vice President Lyndon Johnson to figure it out—fast. The opening question of JFK’s memo to LBJ:

    “Do we have a chance of beating the Soviets by putting a laboratory in space, or by a trip around the Moon, or by a rocket to land on the Moon, or by a rocket to go to the Moon and back with a man. Is there any other space program which promises dramatic results in which we could win?”

    Win. Kennedy wanted to know how to beat the Soviets—how to win in space.


    That memo was written a month before Kennedy’s dramatic “go to the Moon” speech. The race to the Moon he launched would last right up to the moment, almost 100 months later, when Apollo 11 would land on the Moon.

    The race would shape the American and Soviet space programs in subtle and also dramatic ways.

    Apollo 8 was the first U.S. mission that went to the Moon: The Apollo capsule and the service module, with Frank Borman, Bill Anders, and Jim Lovell, flew to the Moon at Christmastime in 1968, but without a lunar module. The lunar modules were running behind, and there wasn’t one ready for the flight.

    Apollo 8 represented a furious rejuggling of the NASA flight schedule to accommodate the lack of a lunar module. The idea was simple: Let’s get Americans to the Moon quick, even if they weren’t ready to land on the Moon. Let’s “lasso the Moon” before the Soviets do.



    Seven months later, when Apollo 11, with Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong, and Buzz Aldrin aboard, entered orbit around the Moon on July 19, 1969, there was a Soviet spaceship there to meet them. It was Luna 15, and it had been launched a few days before Apollo 11. Its goal: Land on the Moon, scoop up Moon rocks and dirt, and then dash back to a landing in the Soviet Union before Collins, Aldrin, and Armstrong could return with their own Moon rocks.

    If that had happened, the Soviets would at least have been able to claim that they had gotten Moon rocks back to Earth first (and hadn’t needed people to do it).

    So put aside for a moment the pure ridiculousness of a Moon landing conspiracy that somehow doesn’t leak out. More than 410,000 Americans worked on Apollo, on behalf of 20,000 companies. Was their work fake? Were they all in on the conspiracy? And then, also, all their family members—more than 1 million people—not one of whom ever whispered a word of the conspiracy?

    If the United States had been faking the Moon landings, one group would not have been in on the conspiracy: The Soviets.

    The Soviet Union would have revealed any fraud in the blink of an eye, and not just without hesitation, but with joy and satisfaction.

    In fact, the Russians did just the opposite. The Soviet Union was one of the few places on Earth (along with China and North Korea) where ordinary people couldn’t watch the landing of Apollo 11 and the Moon walk in real time. It was real enough for the Russians that they didn’t let their own people see it.

    That’s all the proof you need. If the Moon landings had been faked—indeed, if any part of them had been made up, or even exaggerated—the Soviets would have told the world. They were watching. Right to the end, they had their own ambitions to be first to the Moon, in the only way they could muster at that point.



    I prefer to live in the real world, the one in which we did go to the Moon, because the work that was necessary to get American astronauts to the Moon and back was extraordinary. It was done by ordinary people, right here on Earth, people who were called to do something they weren’t sure they could, and who then did it, who rose to the occasion in pursuit of a remarkable goal.
     
  17. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    907
    Anybody can see that the above is just sophistry. The proof that the missions were faked is crushing.
    https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=31034

    I'm banned at that forum. All I ever did was politely argue the alternative side of things. The moderator changed the name of the thread. So far he hasn't manipulated the post.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Only in the eyes of inane, emotionally troubled conspiracy loonies. Otherwise it's 100% fact as many of us lived through it.
    As you should be from any science forum. This one though operates on the aspect of quantity over quality, as is evident in letting you post your inane nonsense.
    Like I said Freddy, 24 men have been in the Moon's immediate vicinity, orbiting and traversing, and 12 have landed in six missions...that's the way the cookie crumbles and that is factual history.

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    Your alternative version, lies, ignorance and obtuseness, will in time be lost in cyber space.

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  19. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    So you saw it on TV. That's proof alright.

    You just debunked all of this evidence.
    https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=31034

    I'm sure all the viewers agree with you.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, along with millions of others around the world, and the Soviets anxiously watching, hoping for a mishap, not to mention the hundreds thousands work force around the world and tracking stations. Far more reliable then the psychos that frquest conspiracy sites wearing their tin foil hats.

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    Any person that is remotely sane certainly does agree with the factual, evidenced backed Moon landings. It is beyond any doubt, despite the wring of hands and crying from the tin foil hat brigade and their fairy tale nonsense.

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  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I've seen the hardware with my own eyes. I've seen the rocks they brought back.

    Again your argument from ignorance fails.
     
  22. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    907
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    You saw some conspiracy videos, especially contrived for emotionally challenged, impressionable gullible people and swallowed the nonsense hook, line and sinker.
     

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