The US House "Representatives" says NSA Spying... here to STAY

That's not a free-market.

NOTE: As an aside, Derivatives ARE and WERE regulated. Not that it matters to the argument. The fact is we do not live in a free-market, we live in a Fascist State. Yes, it happens it puts on a good facade of being "Capitalistic" but a better word for our economy would be "Debtistic".


You need Capital to be a Capitalistic society - that requires savings, savings require interest, interest requires a fair price of money, which can only be determined in a free-market, which we do not have. Instead, we have Central Planners. Our Central Planners have 'prestigious degrees on pretty paper and awards and stuff" So, when they gutted a Chicken, read it's entrails, and proclaimed the Gods were happy, the "Wealth Effect" will commence - Americans went off happily knowing they could go deeply into Debt to the Banks and all would be right in the world, the Gods had smiled.

 

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Not.A.Free.Market

Instead of a free-market, which would be organized around 'free' choice/voluntarism, we have Public "Servants who hire Public 'Officials' who went to Public Schools and Public Universities and were Publicly Certified to Centrally Plan AND REGULATE our Public/State-run Economy.

Oh and *gasp* just like ALL other Publicly-run/Socialist State, the top 1% are rich as hell and own nearly everything and the bottom 99% can share what little is left.

You'll happily buy a Toyota, and probably feel you have the right to, and never give a damn about Akio Toyoda 'paying his fair share'. Why? Because he wasn't stamped at birth with the same "Citizenship" stamp. You couldn't give two shits about Akio. Maybe stop and think about that. Because you don't care about him. He's a non-issue. BUUUT if he was Stamped "American" OOOOooo Hooo Hoooo now it's a different story all together. In Malaysia, you're also "Stamped" Christian or Muslim in your "ID" card. It's equally as asinine. And there are some people who think "Christians" should have to pay a Tax for being Stamped "Christian" through no fault of their own.

Your belief in the State is as superstitious as any other belief. Keep pulling the magic lever LEFT or RIGHT - see if it matters.


Actually, this is something we haven't touched upon. How many decades does iceaura have to pull the magical LEFT or RIGHT lever until iceaura learns nothing changes? I mean, a mouse can learn to stop pulling its lever after a few times when a food pellet doesn't come out. How about you? Does semantic bullshit like "Change We Can Believe In" really work so easily on you? How about Mitten's? He went with "Believe in America". Yeah, "Believe in a geographical location" - no wonder he lost. How about Clinton's "It's the Economy, Stupid" - that was right before he deregulated the banks you keep complaining about - yet you'll squeak squeak for HillBillery I am sure. Hey, here's a good one "Happy Days Are Here Again" - 1932, in the middle of the worse Depression in our History - gee and Roosevelt get elected to FOUR terms, ushered in the Nanny State right along with our Fascist Military Industrial Complex - how lucky for us. Happy Days indeed - if you're in the business of murdering people.

Keep pushing the lever, see if a pellet eventually drops out. Meanwhile, if you bothered to look up and outside of your cage, you'd notice the NSA, the IRS, the "Federal" Reserve and a few Social Scientists looming over and looking down at you to see what you'll do next. I know, let's try this one: "HillBillery, just like Bill - only with smaller teets". Oh look, the lever was pushed to the LEFT finally, good, lets go with that.

 

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You wanted an example of a free market - I gave you an example of a newly and thoroughly deregulated capitalistic market with competition and informed participants and almost no barriers to entry or factors such as transportation and durability to interfere with free market operations. You have as yet provided not one bit of evidence that the market in question was subject to the slightest regulation - I could have, and forced myself to show how these supposed regulatory services did not actually restrict or modify market operations, but to what point?

Markets are not societies or governments, Michael - you can't live in them. The same farmer selling his sugar beets on a tariff and quota controlled subsidized exchange can be dealing his sweet corn on the quintessential free market - the roadside stand. Your weird use of language like that betrays a fundamental confusion - we discover that along with words like "regulation" and "capitalist", you do not know what a free market is either.

A better approach than inventing more terms to be confused by would be an actual argument or evidence to back you various assertions and claims. Or at least an argued connection with the thread, a topic at hand, something like that.

The topic was the regulation, or lack of same, of the US debt based derivatives market 2000 - 2009.

Please name whoever it is you are talking about there - in particular, anyone involved in the upper levels of the US debt based derivatives market 2000 - 2009 in any capacity, who went to a public school and a public university and was "certified" for their job.

I'm not the guy who has been making such a big deal about the Party affiliation of the mayors of Detroit. I'm not the guy who when Democrats screw up blames Democrats, and when Republicans screw up blames "the government" - or even some Democrat or another. I'm not the guy who spells Bush and Reagan plainly, but can't write the name "Obama" without frothing at the keyboard. I'm not the guy running a fantasy of private roads and private gold-backed currencies, blaming the Great Depression on the income tax, or talking about the Federal Reserve as if it were a government run publicly owned Central Bank in charge of regulating the financial markets.

And I'm not the guy who can spend weeks talking about the advent of the digital surveillance State with its implications of fascism in the merger of corporate wealth with governmental power, and never mention Bush, Cheney, Exxon, Enron, OWS, SAC, or the Koch brothers, even once.

 

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There never has been or can be such a thing as a free market, there will will always be some dominate cultural bias that determines the course of any market. Choose your bias.

 

I'm not sure of your point here? A free-market isn't the same as a free for all. Can you give an example?

 

The topic was not 'regulation' it was your insistence that free markets don't work and we need more regulation. This is wrong. We don't have free markets. Don't blame free markets. If we had free markets we wouldn't now have TBTF banks. That's an impossibility in a free market.

Blame the State for destroying the economy - not this non-existent free market. We have a State currency, State Central Bank, State laws regarding regulation, State, State, State.

In a true free market we'd have many different currencies, just as we have choice in OS or cars or apples AND no income tax AND no central bank. We'd have free-market insurance and these companies would have REAL financial incentive to make sure they did their job. We wouldn't have the FDIC - which means people would be more careful about where they put their monetary units. And etc... none of this exists because we instead live in a Progressive Fascist State. One that funds itself through a combination of threats of violence against the citizens ensuring compliance and selling the future labor of unborn citizens.

 

iceaura,

Can you picture how, or even imagine what a society would look like if it was structured around voluntarism? Do you ever think of your money as your vote? And, unlike a symbolic vote, you actually do physically vote for what you want and can express this by increasing the amount you pay for that item or service. With sound money, you have a sound vote.

Is that possible? Or is this it for you? You just so happened to be born into the best-we're-going-to-get social structure. Your opinions have nothing at all to do with your years of Public Schooling and decades of MSM propaganda. It's 100% unbiased and purely objective. It's simply a coincidence you happen to be born into a republic and support the ideals of a republic. Ever stop and think about how 99.99% of Muslims are born Muslims. Or where they born human and made a Muslim?

Were you born American iceaura?

 

What restrictions would you prescribe for your version of a free market? And how would they be applied?

 

Never once have I made any such insistence. You asked for an example of a free market, I posted one. You don't like it, but you can't find anything wrong with it as an example, so you change the subject.

Income tax has little or nothing to do with them. Central banks have even less to do with them. Bad money drives out good. The various mediums of exchange are only the commodities themselves in a couple of specialized markets. And so forth.

As noted, you have no idea what a free market is. You may not even have much of a conception of what markets are at all, let alone how freedom of exchange is maintained within them. (As with so many arenas of this kind, you don't get maximum freedom at minimum regulation)

Sure. Common topic of leftist intellectual efforts, science fiction, etc (Ursula Le Guin wrote some of the best examples). Also encountered in real life communes (such as I've lived in) and tribal societies (practically a definition of tribal society) and the early US pioneering communities, cult Churches, etc. As long as nobody nearby has a relevant army, they work fine. One thing they tend to avoid is capitalist operations - capitalism and structural dependence on volunteerism can only be aligned via very intrusive and detailed government regulation, and the task is a difficult one.

Meanwhile, you may recall the thread topic - you still have made no connection between that "merger of corporate and governmental" you identified, and the operations of the NSA.

 

Thomas Andrews Drake

Heard an interview with Thomas Drake - he inspired the American HERO Edward Snowden. The Obama administration went after Drake and ruined his career - he now works for an Apple Store. Basically, his career with the Government, was destroyed when he did the right thing. He was made an example of by our crush any and all Whistle-blowers - which is Characteristic of the Obama led Government as is the natural inclination of Progressives.

 

Ixquick

Don't like Google?

Search Engine: Ixquick

WIKI:
Ixquick is a metasearch engine based in New York and the Netherlands. Founded by David Bodnick in 1998, Ixquick is owned by Dutch company, Surfboard Holding BV, which acquired the internet company in 2000. Ixquick also provides the stand-alone proxy service, Ixquick Proxy, which has also been incorporated into both its Ixquick and Startpage search engines allowing users the option to open all search results via proxy.

Ixquick is developing a privacy protecting email service: StartMail.

[Note: StartPage uses Google to search but does so anonymously]


Search Engine: DuckGoGo

DuckDuckGo positions itself as a search engine that puts privacy first and as such it does not store IP addresses, does not log user information and uses cookies only when needed. Weinberg states "By default, DuckDuckGo does not collect or share personal information. That is our privacy policy in a nutshell."




A statement from StartPage and Ixquick explained:

No user data stored: StartPage and Ixquick never store user data, including IP addresses and search queries, so government agencies have no incentive to ask for these. This privacy is so complete; the company doesn’t even know who its customers are, so it can’t share anything with Big Brother.

Encrypted (HTTPS) connections: StartPage and Ixquick were the first search engines to use automatic encryption on all connections to prevent snooping. When searches are encrypted, third parties like ISPs and the NSA can’t eavesdrop on Internet connections to see what people are searching for.

Not under U.S. jurisdiction: StartPage and Ixquick are based in the Netherlands, so they are not directly subject to U.S. regulations, warrants, or court orders. They can’t be forced to participate in spying programs like PRISM. The company has never turned over a single bit of user data to any government entity in the 14 years it has been in business, which is not surprising since there is no data in the first place.

 

New York Times' James Risen Sounds Off On Court Order: 'They Just Keep Coming At Me'

Remember when the DOJ Targeted Fox News Reporter James Rosen Risks and criminalized Journalism? Maybe you thought somewhere in the back of your head our "Civil Servants" got caught out and would maybe back down a bit. Nope. New York Times's Journalist James Risen with either be forced to testify against his source in a leaks case or go to prison. A "Federal" appeals court reversed a lower court's decision to allow Risen to keep his source confidential. He could face jail if he refuses to testify in the trial of Jeffrey Sterling, a former CIA officer who is being charged with leaking classified information.


It's not possible to have both a Progressive State and a Personal Freedom. Again, another innocent Citizen, who's 'Crime' was *gasp* providing us with information about the State - is as we speak being threatened with being physically tossed into a Federal Rape-Cage. This is a fact. It's not hyperbole. ONLY the State has the legal authority to do this. Google can not do this. BlackWater can not do this. General Motors can not do this. The Koch Brothers, as rich and powerful as they are - can not do this. Only the State has this legal right. Any one of these private institutions can buy off a "Civil Servant" and use the power of the State against the Citizen. It's why the State must be kept as small and as weak as is possible (preferably there'd be no State).

Progressives* make the following two pathetic arguments: You use the roads! What about the children! What they implicitly say is, if it weren't for rape, no one would reproduce. If it weren't for the State, we'd have no roads and children wouldn't learn to read. As if the same people who vote for these things, can't manage to freely organize amongst themselves to provide these services. It's as if the Progressive lives in two worlds. The evil one - in their head. Where no one can be trusted and the people are pathetic and weak and thus need a Nanny State (and the Nanny is a Serial Killer). And then there the real world, the one whose semi free-markets provide them with free air-conditioned malls, free webpages, free email, free food samples, cheap phones with free video calls to anyone anywhere in the world. In essence, most Progressive watch way to much TV and are gullible in the extremely or they're outright sociopaths with a deep hatred of society - or both. Given their propensity to liable anyone as 'Racists!' if they dare suggest volentarism is a more preferable route (this Progressive-Speech for the words Heretic (theocracy) or Traitor (Strong Statist) I'm thinking they're just simple gullible people who watch too much TV (example: Elysium^^)


Asking the Nanny State to provide Social Services is akin to asking a Sociopath to watch your children. Yet people do.

Detroit: great example of Progressivism, the majority of the highest paid Public "Servants" are "Public Teachers" - yes, we are truly thinking about the children. Some of the highest paid Public Servants in the country. Their graduates are 47% functionally illiterate. This means, after 12 years of some of the most overpaid, most expensive "Free" Public Schooling the Progressive State has to offer - and those kids graduate (what few bother to) 47% can not read and understand this post. AND yet you expect them to go down and make an intelligent vote as a 'responsible Citizen'.

And worse, you're willing to give up your civil liberties over this nonsense.
Progressivism (State) and Freedom (Society) mix as well as oil and water.



* Yes, it does sound rather jingoistic doesn't it? That's because it is.
^^ Hypocritically, Matt Damon's 4 children attend Private Schools.

 

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Just Weeks Ago, Keith Alexander Said Review Of NSA Found Not A Single Violation; Reality: Thousands Of Violations

Keith Alexander is the current Director of the National Security Agency (DIRNSA), Chief of the Central Security Service (CHCSS) and Commander of the United States Cyber Command. He is a four-star general in the United States Army. In short, he's a career bureaucrat.

 

*GASP*
Democrats Mark Udall and Ron Wyden:
Reports of Compliance Violations Made Under NSA Collection Programs: Just the TIP OF THE ICEBERG

Following the latest revelations of widespread abuses by the NSA, Senators Mark Udall and Ron Wyden -- who had just recently warned that the intelligence community was not being upfront about abuses -- have put out a statement saying that there's still a lot more that hasn't yet been revealed:

The executive branch has now confirmed that the rules, regulations and court-imposed standards for protecting the privacy of Americans have been violated thousands of times each year. We have previously said that the violations of these laws and rules were more serious than had been acknowledged, and we believe Americans should know that this confirmation is just the tip of a larger iceberg.

 

And how were these violations discovered? By NSA surveillance of itself.

What would an audit of the millions of citizens outraged by the NSA ‘s activity turn up? Millions of cases of illegal activity of all kinds I imagine. At least the NSA is documenting the extent of their infractions, are these concerned civilians doing the same? Ironically, the way to expose and combat this undocumented malfeasance perpetrated by the citizenry is to expand surveillance by the NSA and law enforcement, not restrict it.

 

POLL find that regardless of politcal affiliation:Huge majority of American wants Clapper prosecuted for perjury

There is no longer any doubt that Director of National Intelligence James Clapper lied to Congress. Likewise, there is no doubt that his lie runs afoul of federal law. And, of course, there is no doubt that in terms of its implications for oversight, constitutional precepts and privacy for millions of Americans, his lies were far more serious than those that have gotten other people prosecuted for perjury. The question now is whether his brazen dishonesty will become a political issue — or whether it will simply disappear into the ether.

As evidenced by President Obama this week attempting to promote Clapper to head an “independent” NSA reform panel, the White House clearly believes it will be the latter. But a set of new polls out today suggests such a calculation may be wrong.

Commissioned by the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Credo and conducted by Public Policy Polling in five ideologically diverse states, the surveys find that huge majorities want Clapper prosecuted.

The question posed to respondents was:

Edward Snowden revealed that the Director of National Intelligence lied to Congress about whether the government was collecting millions of phone and Internet records from ordinary Americans. The Director has since admitted he did not tell the truth. Do you think the Director of National Intelligence should be prosecuted for perjury?

 

Oh I'm sure our "Civil Servants" are right on board with you there. Have you ever thought about running for office? I'm sure you'd find yourself in like-minded company.

 

From The Economist

The audit, which details thousands of violations, counted only those in the NSA's Fort Meade headquarters (pictured) and other *facilities around Washington, DC. Officials told the Post that the number of violations would have been "substantially higher" if it included other NSA facilities. "We’re a human-run agency operating in a complex environment with a number of different regulatory regimes, so at times we find ourselves on the wrong side of the line,” whined an unnamed NSA official. Referring to the agency's violations in comparison to its total activity, he added, “You look at a number in absolute terms that looks big, and when you look at it in relative terms, it looks a little different.” But the NSA would rather you see nothing at all.

Pictured below is one of MANY brand new NSA building - constructed around the country to spy on various individuals, including American Citizens.

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