The Worship of Deliberate Ignorance: The Santa Myth

Discussion in 'Religion' started by spidergoat, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Not like JC then where you have plenty of evidence that he is a myth.
    Certainly we have more evidence that Santa may be real than any many gods but no evidence...heck there are more gods than all the Santas in all the shopping centers world wide...maybe if you paid some old guys to dress up as god that may make gods more real...mmm no cant do a thing to make any god real...remember the universe is eternal and that there was no creator...say it a few times so you dont forget.
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    In a Christmas Eve call, Trump asked a 7-year-old named Collman Lloyd whether the child still believes in Santa Claus.
    "Are you still a believer in Santa? Because at 7, it's marginal, right?" Trump asked Collman.
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  5. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Based on your own reality eh Alex?
    I agree.
    That is a valid debate, did you create your own thread? You seem very confident in your beliefs, a thread?
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Look at my signature....says it all really☺

    I do think the human god story and the astrology is real ... it certainly is not something that I made up.

    You could spend the day googling if you wsnt to be convinced.

    There certainly were many human gods in many different cultures all with the astrology link.

    That is not my imagination working overtime and if you wish research the proposition for yourself just google...and there will be books ...hard to ignore unless your mind is already made up.

    I did not make the history I just look at what is there.

    The problem is that a believer when faced with the history must avoid making a judgement that can only have them accept a conclusion that JC was just another human god based on astrology.

    What most believers point to as evidence that JC was a god is the death and resurrection...leaving aside the absence of credible evidence for that we see that the human gods all died and resurrected after 3 days which is just what the Sun is seen to do.

    They all have this death and resurrection and it is presumably an effort to relate to the Sun.

    I was thinking the walking on water could be a Sun parrallel also as at Sun set or Sun rise ancients would probably describe things that way.

    Look I like all that the mythical JC taught ( well like others I can cherry pick stuff that I can use to tell myself. .. turn the other cheek...I use it a the good emotions and leave behind the bad ones...good advice...but it does not mean JC is real.
    You domt have to believe in Santa to open ptesents unfer the tree on xmas morning.

    Sherlock Holmes says some neat stuff...but he aint real.

    There is no debate that is the way it is☺

    I am right and if I was wrong I would be the first to say so.

    I think there was a thread. ..would have been in free thoughts or religion ..I will look but I am in a rush ... so much to do and no workers under my control.

  8. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    It's just another part of folklore and mythology. It doesn't matter that it is not literally true. What matters is that the myth can mean something beyond its literal reading, and that is what makes it valuable and enduring, like all folklore.
    exchemist likes this.
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    What matters is that people UNDERSTAND it is a myth and are not mislead into the belief that it is to be taken literally by the peddlers of stupidity

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    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I have been thinking lately the damage that make believe does to the human race.

    Make believe starts seemingly at an innocent level but then rums unchecked thru life.

    Why have make believe fairey tales and fiction at all...why not expect a world where nothing is a lie...where every utterance is the fairytale no love novels no action movies no fantasy...if you want to make a movie it must be non fiction...if you want to write a book it must be non fiction and hopefully presenting actual facts about the world.

    And to treat lieing as the worst offence punishable by death for a first offence and something worse for repeat offenders.

    Imagine a world where folk were not believing any crap at all.

    Imagine a world where anyone appearing on tv spoke nothing but the truth.

    What could humans achieve if free of fiction and fantasy.

  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Because they are fun.
    Because people imagining things that don't exist is why we have reusable boosters, communications satellites and computers.
    Because thinking about such things has benefits beyond just eventually doing those things.
    We would be the best horse breeders and corn growers on the planet.
    exchemist likes this.
  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Imagine all the people living for today, aha, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
    I just made that up.
  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Yep. The atheists on here are a disgrace to humanity.
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    So how do you feel about the death penalty for liars☺.
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Yes they insist on seeking the truth that is the eternal universe and evolution....disgraceful.
  16. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    No they don't. All i see are atheists ridiculing religion without any research into religion(like reading the bible or koran, bhagavad gita) but simply just spouting the same garbage like a choir, without any intention of civil debate because they think they have all the answers. I don't know why i'm still here, you all talk crap. your position for example, and you are not the worst by far. your foundation is "i thought that the universe is eternal and it all made sense" with that pearl of wisdom you've got up on the pulpit declaring that everything other then your thought is garbage, hitler thought like that. All i'm saying is learning is fun, and that's exactly what you need at this point in time!
  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Yes, but it's somewhat offset by the advantages of imagination. Invention depends on making a mental leap from what is to what might be. That's a form of make-believe. Empathy, to a large extent depends on imagining what it's like to be another, what it's like to be in a different body, identity, condition, situation, predicament.

    Again, yes and no. The fairy tales teach children life lessons by non-threatening example and problem-solving skills through imaginary scenarios that they may encounter sometime. Those same fairy tales, because they are so obviously different from observed reality, also prepare the child to look behind another person's words - to know that sometimes a story is fictional, to figure out which is which.

    Because they expand our minds, allow us to explore worlds, lives, situations and problems that we may not encounter in our own lives; it allows us to understand how other people think and feel - and sometimes, by analogy, to discover things about ourselves.

    Because that would be a disappointed expectation. Even nature shows a false face sometimes. The credulous individual is at a disadvantage.

    How would they come by it? None of us knows enough to speak only when we are certain that we speak truth. It would be a very uncommunicative, very cold and lonely and culturally bereft world.
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    What you see can only be thru the filter of ignorance presumably instilled by advocates of your faith.

    You lose immediately you reject evolution and that is because you obviously dont know anything about suggest we speculate upon the possibility that you have read more than others here...well my speculation is you have not read a damn thing.

    And my speculation does not deprive you from any opportunity to demonstrate in some small way that you know what you are talking about.

    Do you know what put me on the path to atheism?

    Reading the bible..yes cover to cover and perhaps unlike others who cherry pick it for quotes to support whatever it is that they need from some alledged higher authority ...I read it with an open mind..noting that it starts with the very first sentence with a made story of creation and rather than casually move on I noted that the annonomous author could not have witnessed the creation he presents as if he were some sort of tv reporter diligently deliveting a blow by blow account.

    Its made up and any fool can see why...mmm maybe any fool cant see you see that it is made up?

    And it does not get better.

    This book supposedly the word of god holds so many errors if it were submitted as a school project it would be failed as just wrong.

    However as to the old testament I understand that it was an attempt by ancient folk to build a basis for their law and to provide answers superior to the other superstitious crap of the the Old Testament gets a pass as a made up story but not as the truth that thousands of years later cant be corrected.

    The new testament however is a lie.

    It is built on a lie.

    The lie is that a human could be god.

    The history shows this without any misunderstanding possible...the human gods mirror the Elvis impersonator situation...all good but all fake and JC was just one more Elvis impersonator.

    Discuss that all you want but the lie will remain.

    I know I know.

    It is just so annoying when you run into that person with whom you strongly disagree but nevertheless know they are right.

    That is why you feel the need to insult me...because I am just so annoyingly right...

    As I said something does not come from nothing and all your observations and mine attest to that being a fact...this simple observation strongly suggests the universe can only be eternal. ..there is no other answer.

    What is so upsetting for you about an eternal universe...does it not make more sense than an eternal creator who sat in eternity for an eternity to come out and create a huge finite universe with one little spot for his pets that just happen to look like him...and now he is all around us eternal but not inhabiting eternity present everywhere but unevidenced and entitely ineffectual and with no input must sound crazy even to you.

    You are just ticked off because my approach is most reasonable and supported by all we see whereas your approach is just some made up yarn unsupported by anything we can observe.

    You know I am right but you are still unable to accept the truth because you have taken a dislike to the messenger...pretend you thought of it. ..that may make it better.

    Your best choice is to stop swimming against the tide and enjoy your new understanding that uses observation and logic to answer questions previously only dealt with by making up stuff with no supporting evidence logic or reason.

    You deserve to enjoy your new enlightenment.

    What a cheap attempt to divert attention from what we are discussing.

    Do you think I care if you insult me?

    Do you think my confidence depends upon the approval of others let alone yours. ..that right thete is evidence that you are somewhat delusional.

    Look you can call me whatever you like but know this...with each insult you make I know I have nailed you...I love insults they tell me I have made a big impression...each insult is like awarding me a gold star for excellence...and you dont see that do you.

    But that is not what you are saying. ... you are not saying learning is fun at all and you are now just telling lies.

    So my friend what should I learn...I already have read the bible and a few other religious things.

    I have researched the history that clearly shows that christianity is a lie and that JC was one of many humans that claimed to be god.

    I have learnt that our best theory on cosmology cant take us to a point of creation.

    I have learnt that if folk have been brainwashed and suffer any type of god delusion that they are incapable of rational thinking...prove me wrong Son.

    Start with some insults, add some biblical quotes and perhaps a promise of eternal torture in hell by a god that loves me...perhaps explain why evolution is wrong and that despite the commonality observed in the dna of humans and chimps there is no relationship that supports The Theory of Evolution.

    If you have read any of those books that should be real easy.

    Please list out what I should learn and I will return the favour by teaching you how to argue without resorting to insults.

    Now if you want to get back on side with me and have me give you some degree of respect please offer me an appology covering the areas where you attacked me and not my posts...

    Come on I have made a bet with myself that you can do it...please do not disappoint me that you are not man enough to say sorry.

  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    That's right. You are the only one who can see the light. Everyone else thinks like Hitler.

    The problem with this sort of silly personal attack is you've blown your wad; there's no way to escalate. What will you do next? Claim that everyone else is like Hitler AND Osama Bin Laden put together? That just sounds silly.
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Well I have always been inventive and although I have not made money (excluding marketing ideas when in real estate) have many that others followed thru on to show to me that they work.
    I have always had a terrific imagination but never read fiction ... sure saw fiction movies as a kid but I did not need make believe to think about things in the abstract.
    True but I think it really comes down to who tells the storey and how they guide the thinking.
    Yes you have a point however there is nothing like observing reality.
    I am thinking of a small community that I would visit and most folk were druggies and or heavy strangley the kids all grew up decent having had the benefit of seeing in real situations how folk went down hill ( or didnt).
    Yes you paint a most seductive picture.
    Imagine tv and the news...5 minutes ...all over☺

    Nice well considered post.
    Thank you.

  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    He probably doesn't like him because he brought the world the VW☺

    AS I said the nastier the insult the more I know I am winning and really what a clear victory for me such that he must reach so deep into the bin of evil.

    The choice tells me a few things.

  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Sortta on topic...
    I drove most of the day and stopped at Macas for food and drink....and was bailed up by 6 young aboriginal kids asking if I was Santa...they were with their grandfather who I chatted with and got into how is so and so going...I know many of them and they know me...anyways I could not help myself I told the kids I was recovering after a busy xmas but what did they want next xmas☺ ...sure your own phone, a bike sure. ..tell you what each of you write me a letter and tell me what you want and all the good things you have been doing for your family and friends...take it to the post office...where is that?
    Grandad says write your letters and we will take them to the post office next day when in town...

    Everyone in the place waved to me when I left and said bye bye Santa☺

    So see I can be nice.

  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Also imaginative.
    That's humans for ya - always making stories, always narrating life.

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