Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by desi, Oct 25, 2007.
Anyone care to disagree or comment?
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I disagree. I just disagree, no explanations.
Totally disagree, I spent two deployments in Iraq. There are many atheists.
However I've found in alot of cases, if one is raised in a specific religion, but have "converted" (for lack of a better word) to an Atheistic viewpoint, its not uncommon for anyone to revert to religion in times of high stress. Doesn't always happen, but alot of times it can and does.
I love the fact that being an atheist keeps me out of foxholes.
If your afraid of death you will pray to god for protection.
If your willing to live, then your willing to kill. I like to beleive that most people would pray to the sky for forgiveness after taking another man's life.
All the atheists who fought for their countries would disagree.
You make that comment, yet you also said that you "totally disagree" with the heading of the topic.
In my experience, in a hot firefight or even moreso in a heavy artillery barrage, people will turn to god to save them. When the firefight or the artillery barrage is over, they might easily swing back to being atheists with equal ease.
But I think, as a general statement, it's true ....there are no atheists in a foxhole.
Come on. Sure, some people who haven't before that time believed in God call out to God in one way or another. But we humans are pretty various: some people do not pray, or speak to God, etc. even when they think they are about to die.
"If your afraid of death you will pray to god for protection."
I don't believe in God and I don't pray for protection, I have my "protection"
and will use it if necessary. Afraid of dying isn't something that I worry
about as much as those that want us to believe in God do. They want only
to instill fear that we won't go to heaven but to hell if we don't believe in
God. That's utter nonsense for there is no heaven or hell as those in religion
want us to think. Its all a myth developed through the years and it changes
as people change to fit the society that those in charge are in.
"If your willing to live, then your willing to kill. I like to beleive that most people would pray to the sky for forgiveness after taking another man's life."
That statement makes no sense at all. I'm willing to live and not willing to
kill UNLESS I am attacked by someone that wants to hurt me. I don't go out
and look to kill anyone as you are suggesting but willing to help others that
are in need of help. I wouldn't pray to anything if I killed another person
that was trying to kill me, I'm only defending my life as well as a family if I
had one, as many here would do also.
Does it matter? The fact that an atheist in a very stressful, dangerous situation might allow his fear or panic to override his logic and reason doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not god exists. It simply demonstrates that frightened, desperate people are sometimes irrational.
The sad thing is that so many christians really do seem to think that simply claiming “There are no atheists in foxholes” actually constitutes some sort of rational argument.
If someone prays in a foxhole, does that mean they believe in God?
If a Christian wonders if there is no God when in a foxhole, and I am sure this happens regularly also, does is this Christian suddenly an athiest or agnostic?
I suppose there's a lot more reasearch done on this topic; but when I read this post, I was reminded of an occurence in Pavlov's famous experiments with the dogs.
Namely, at one time they had a flood and the dogs had to swim to safety. The situation was so traumatic for the dogs, that some of them forgot their conditioned reflexes -
I've seen reference to this in some dicsussions about human productivity. Namely, under enough stress, people tend to forget their good working strategies (which are actually learned, ie. conditioned behaviors), and instead revert to some less efficient ways to work (which only makes things worse, of course).
The conclusion is that under stress, conditioned behaviors can weaken or diminish completely.
I think that when it comes to beliefs, similar applies. Beliefs are after all a matter of conditioning.
So I think that the concept of there being "no atheists in foxholes" is somewhat misleading as it focuses on a single occurence of a phenomenon that is common for the range of conditioned behaviors.
Because I know they are not trying to personally kill me. How could they? When they don't even know me? They are being ordered to kill me, am I crazy to not hold a grudge?
Plus I also understand that they are being shot at and possibly have a family that they are trying to protect.
all those atheists serving in military would disagree
The impression i get is at the moment when death is seemingly imminent. And YES unfortunately i have been effected by this more than once.
Is praying for luck the same as praying to a deity?
Maybe the OP refers to intellectual foxholes. In which case he's wrong, of course.
I wont hold this against you, (since I've never had to defend my country) but many atheists would find this appalling.
The day a soldier is degraded, insulted, blamed, or mistreated for what he/she has done is the day America dies.
So all soldiers are infallible. Even the ones who massacre civilians. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Thanks for that, GI Joe.
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