thoughts form my mind

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Avatar, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    mind in insanity
    thought in madness
    meaning where there is none
    which is the meaning of all that is


    What can be the moral to the one which has no. I walk this world and smtimes I'm not myself. Or maybe only in those moments I am I. And I don't know from which to fear more.
    Sometimes people feel mighty, sometimes they enslave other nations and live prosperously, but in the end all become nothing, when get forgotten. Earth- some thousand years after the construction of the pyramids, some thousand years before man created the culture, some million years before it discovered itself, some tenths of millions of years before the extinction of dinosaurs, soem billion of years before the Earth formed, and some more billions of years, before the Sun formed - and all these times, events, flow in the sea of space and time of our universe, which is maybe one of the many many universes, and our Solar system is just one of hundreds of millions other star systems in our galaxy, and our galaxy is just among hundreds of billions of other galaxies. And this all is maybe a singularity in another universe. And now back from this sea of space and time I zooooooooooom back to myself - isn't it the greatest irony. I - a dust entity from exploded stars through which flow electrons and form my thoughts. No meaning, only my will, which is laughable at the scale of our universe.

    What job I will choose, what future- that all is laughable, unmeaningful, microscopical, that makes me laugh in the face of all mankind, right in the face of all humans, laugh about the crowd, about the stupid crowd, who's ignorance maybe truly is their bliss. I laugh and watch at myself in despise. I am a part of the crowd. I live in the stream (mainstream) of it, I live...
    and even if I dyed, it would still be following the majority. And if I lived forever, even after Andromeda galaxy crashes into ours, even after the end of our universe- I'd be the most original and the most miserable of all the mad ones that have ever lived. To be original in the scale of the universe and beyond means to be a gof, means not to follow its laws, paying for it with my sanity.
    THe alternative is human, a creature, an animal, which understands that there is no salvation, and if there is such it is even worse that the destruction.

    And I can not take my sword and go in the world to look for forgetness in adventures. I live on Earth, 21th century- in a world where apes think they're humans, in a world where all magic has dyed, in a world that loses memory of what it has beem- and it always is death which hides in forgetfulness. I exist in a world where there is nothing there, just a mask of illusion with which it tryes to hide from reality. In a world which apes have sabotaged and turned it in to their image- and this image is disgusting. We have taken the freedom from ourselves. We think that we are free, but in reality we are the slaves of our time, our civilization and our culture. We are slaves by our own verdict, but we don't understand that this verdict is done by ourselves. We have forgotten and that doesn't allow us to cancel it. Animals or gods? Primitive animals or insane deities, our power is in our interfaction. Our power is we not I I am insane, the crowd is stupid, but we both are human. Nor god, nor animal- human is a strange creature- sometimes a god , sometimes an animal, sometimes an insane god, sometimes a mad animal. I need to be able to decide, but we don't remember how, meybe we never knew....human- an animal at the level of instincts, a god- all are mad all are stupid- meanig is only where there is none and unmeaningless is our meaning, but we would wish it was the other way around- but I am also an insane animal, thus I'm probably mistaken and talk trash and am wrong and state primitive statements.

    We are victims of our mind and playground, we are the biggest entertainment for our mind and our mind is cynical and ironical and despotical and amoral. We are the self irony of our universe. Irony that ironises about its irony.

    I need an identity, I need myself. For now I am nothing- an animal with a culture, some moral and a few traditions and an ironical mind.

    I am what I am
    I am..................

    Who am I...?


    --------------------------
    take it easy
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2002
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  3. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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    We are all made of stars my friend

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  5. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Nausea.

    You are a fluke of the universe. You are the cosmos' idea of a practical joke. You have no right to exist and yet here you are.

    You are your thoughts.

    Now what the fuck are you going to do about it?
     
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  7. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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  8. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

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    We are going to sit and contemplate why we are the fluke, the butt of the joke until we die, then the universe will be sad because the little people, called humans, that they used to make fun of will be gone and not one thing will be happy ever again in the vast universe.
     
  9. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Love it

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    Magic is not dead, and people are not innately cynical.

    Sometimes our hearts no longer have the strength to dream, and sometimes our minds protect us from pain by deciding not to. In other words, sometimes we become cynical because we are afraid, and our hearts can't spread thier wings anymore and fly.
    No, cynicism and lack of faith are not innate characteristics of the human experience. They are learned. As children our hearts are birds that fly and dream awesome dreams, and there's nothing to stop us.

    If you're sitting in a room full of cynical people, be careful what you say. Don't talk about dreams or beauty. Don't talk about magic or fairy tales. Definitely don't talk to them about having faith in the human heart and spirit. They wont want to hear it. If you persist, they'll become angry and arrogant. They'll attack you, and they'll get personal. That is the inevitable oppression you'll sometimes feel, if you choose to be different, from people who need to drag you back down so they can feel secure and comfortable again.

    Now that I'm no longer a child, and no longer a stranger to how cruel this world can be sometimes, I can still talk about magic. I still dream and I still believe. In fact, one thing I will say about magic right now is that it's about knowing how to keep your heart open even though you're scared you're going to get hurt again. It is about being strong. You know that life is not a fairy tale, but you remember that at times there can be moments just like one. Magic is everything you know this life can be. Everything good, everything beautiful, everything mysterious. You can embrace those things without losing touch with reality, because they are part of it.

    So the question is, what kind of person are you going to choose to be? Or, as Xev put it, "what the fuck are you going to do about it?".
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    do- nothing

    I don't care a fuck aout the universe, I'll do or at least try to d things that give me pleasure.

    I'm quite optimistic about us-

    I just wrote this when in a sort of weir state of mind and also had just read Elric of Melibourne (sp) thus it was more my subconsciouness that wrote it not me- or that is me? :bugeye:

    anyways as I said- take it easy.
    no deep thought here, just wrote what I felt atm, I'm not whining or anything.

    all is good while I can enjoy myself- all the rest is not critical

    ciao

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  11. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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    Oh well, that's alright then !

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  12. machaon Registered Senior Member

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    I think

    I think that you become yourself when things start to sink in. Thats when you realize that those things never hit bottom. Those things just keep sinking and sinking...
     
  13. Squid Vicious Banned Banned

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  14. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Squid Vicious,

    Fuzzy idealistic fantasies? That wasn't what I meant. I am realistic about what this world is, but I choose to believe that extraordinary things are still possible.

    You don't know what I'm like. You might think you do from a couple of posts you may have read.

    And you think I can't? I know what people are like, and I choose to have faith in thier potential anyway. That leaves me open to a shitload of potential disappointments, but that's my choice. It's not always a waste of time.

    First, how much do you really know about what I think real beauty is? Second, feeling warm and fuzzy about the world and talking yourself into believing everything is ok when it's really not doesn't do yourself or anyone else the slightest bit of good, as you know. You think I've lost touch or never had it, but actually, the opposite is true.

    That's exactly what I want. As for dead zombies loving everything they come across, that comment is a side-effect of not have the slightest idea about who I am. Never surrender? Absolutely not. It's much easier in life to give up on the world and people and not expect much from them. It's much harder to keep believing, and that's exactly what makes you feel truly alive. You might not know exactly what I mean, but this is an online forum after all, and I don't want to write my life story here.

    Convince them to become secure and comfortable? Actually, I want to stir them up, get them off thier cynical arses, and live life instead of giving up on everything because it never did them any good before. The world is full of disappointments. The world sucks. There is bullshit everywhere. Get used to it, sure. But be strong enough to stand up and say "F$#k this. Life is always screwing with me, always trying to get me down, but it's not going to beat me. It's not going to squash my spirit and stop me from believing". Believing in what? Well, I think you are aware of my idealistic vision of the way the world could be. I also know that it will never be that. But it sure as hell doesn't mean I am going to stop trying to change my little corner of it. And it doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to inspire people to think differently.

    You don't see it squid, but you've tried to drag me down like the people in that room would. Tried to put me in my place. But you've done it without knowing who I am, because perhaps you think that it's impossible for someone who has wrestled with this life just as much as anybody to be someone who still believes in magic.

    Some of the things you've said lead me to believe that you're not really as cynical as you claim to be. In fact, if you knew me, I sincerely doubt you would have said most of what you have.

    Sometimes people accuse me of being cynical. I talk about the world, and how screwed up it is, and people tell me to stop being so negative. Often I defend myself by saying "I want to FEEL it. I don't want to be just another person who runs around half blind to the way things really are". The response is often "But what good does it do you to be pissed off with things all the time". My response is "First, I'm not pissed off all that often. And second, it does ME good to remember what the world is really like, because if you don't know what's wrong, how can you change it?".

    I am passionate about being alive, and I CHOOSE, in spite of everything, to have faith, and embrace everything good. It's not easy, but I don't ever plan on giving up.

    Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you were getting at there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2002
  15. Squid Vicious Banned Banned

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    595
    Originally posted by Rav
    Fuzzy idealistic fantasies? That wasn't what I meant. I am realistic about what this world is, but I choose to believe that extraordinary things are still possible.

    Well, your first post certainly sounded like that's what you meant. What extraordinary things are we talking about then?

    You don't know what I'm like. You might think you do from a couple of posts you may have read.

    No, i don't know what you're like. so i form an opinion based on what you write. You do the same thing.

    And you think I can't? I know what people are like, and I choose to have faith in thier potential anyway. That leaves me open to a shitload of potential disappointments, but that's my choice. It's not always a waste of time.

    We agree on this much. It is, unfortunately, usually a waste of time. Personally, i can count the number i've found worthwhile on less than the fingers of one hand, but yes... there are some. I think we might argue about who is worthwhile and who is not, however. as you say, i'd like to believe otherwise....

    First, how much do you really know about what I think real beauty is?

    Not knowing you personally, i know exactly the amount you tell me, a little more by inference, more again by conjecture. So if you want me to have a clear picture, then you're just going to have to be clear.

    Second, feeling warm and fuzzy about the world and talking yourself into believing everything is ok when it's really not doesn't do yourself or anyone else the slightest bit of good, as you know. You think I've lost touch or never had it, but actually, the opposite is true.

    In touch with what? you're telling me your first post was not what you meant. tell me what you did mean then.

    That's exactly what I want. As for dead zombies loving everything they come across, that comment is a side-effect of not have the slightest idea about who I am.

    Good. see my comment above, though. On these forums, in life itself, to others, you are what you say.

    Never surrender? Absolutely not. It's much easier in life to give up on the world and people and not expect much from them.

    Nope... i find it harder to give up. Hence this discussion with you. still trying. i tell people im not big on self-flagellation, but... here i am.

    It's much harder to keep believing, and that's exactly what makes you feel truly alive.

    YES. Agreed. but not in magic though. not in little white picket fences. not in rainbows, in rules, in dogma, in acceptance. but in those who want more. those who, more importantly, are more.

    You might not know exactly what I mean, but this is an online forum after all, and I don't want to write my life story here.

    Au contraire... i do know. i am sensing some differences between us, but hey... who wants a disciple? life stories are useless though... if all you are is the sum of your experiences, then i have no time for you.

    First, how much do you really know about what I think real beauty is?

    Again, only what you tell me.

    Second, feeling warm and fuzzy about the world and talking yourself into believing everything is ok when it's really not doesn't do yourself or anyone else the slightest bit of good, as you know. You think I've lost touch or never had it, but actually, the opposite is true.

    so prove it. talking about "magic" is not going to achieve anything. it conjures up images of everyone holding hands all round the world, with a little pink cartoon dragon flying in the background with a happy smile on his face... like an all-powerful, yet benevolent and merciful father...

    That's exactly what I want. As for dead zombies loving everything they come across, that comment is a side-effect of not have the slightest idea about who I am.

    Then don't post things which sound that way. if you're fucking angry, then say so. if i've pissed you off, say so. if you want to break things, say so. if you want to bring the whole goddamn thing down, little by little, then say so. you won't do much good. most will ignore you... fuck 'em. you'll achieve nothing by loving them... it only gives them justification for being what they are. concentrate on those who dont ignore you. those who fight back. listen to what they tell you, and tell them what you believe. learn from them, and teach.

    they are your friends.

    You don't see it squid, but you've tried to drag me down like the people in that room would. Tried to put me in my place.

    Damn right i did. wanted to see what you were going to do about it.

    But you've done it without knowing who I am

    do i need to? i'll try to find out if i think it's worth my time. i'm no stranger to disappointment.

    because perhaps you think that it's impossible for someone who has wrestled with this life just as much as anybody to be someone who still believes in magic.

    absolutely correct. you may have to define "magic" for me though, because i'm getting a bad impression from that word.

    Some of the things you've said lead me to believe that you're not really as cynical as you claim to be.

    oh, then perhaps you're in for a little disappointment. i'm approximately 90% cynic, 10% hope. if i was a religious man, that 10% would be down on his knees. even Zarathusra came down from his mountain. the odds ain't good though....

    In fact, if you knew me, I sincerely doubt you would have said most of what you have.

    phhht... totally irrelevant. i dont know you. call it as i see it.

    Sometimes people accuse me of being cynical. I talk about the world, and how screwed up it is, and people tell me to stop being so negative. Often I defend myself by saying "I want to FEEL it. I don't want to be just another person who runs around half blind to the way things really are". The response is often "But what good does it do you to be pissed off with things all the time". My response is "First, I'm not pissed off all that often. And second, it does ME good to remember what the world is really like, because if you don't know what's wrong, how can you change it?".

    why bother? think you're going to change their minds? they'll either realise it themselves or they won't. look out, here's that 10% again... fuck that 10% anyway.

    I am passionate about being alive, and I CHOOSE, in spite of everything, to have faith, and embrace everything good. It's not easy, but I don't ever plan on giving up.

    well, ok. i wonder what "good" is though. define that along with "magic".

    Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you were getting at there.

    That was an official "oops". a recent failed 10%. ignore it.
     
  16. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for your carefully prepared post Squid Vicious

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    Anything that anyone could do that might take that 10% of yours and improve upon it

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    When someone surprises you. Something that renews your faith in the human spirit, even if it's something small. When you're expectations are exceeded.

    There are extraordinary stories to be told by many people. Even some that don't need to be exaggerated. This post would be too long if I started recounting personal experiences, so I hope you know what I'm getting at.

    Not quite. An opinion will form, yes. But I wont start openly judging people when I've only got a few things to go on. Even if I'm annoyed, I try not to make it personal, although I'm human and I might slip up if the tone has already been set. But I have a pretty thick skin, and I knew I was probably going to stir someone up, so no harm done

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    What I meant was not what you thought I meant. It seemed you had me pegged as someone who either hadn't experienced enough of the "real" world to know what it was really like, or as someone who didn't want, or didn't have the capacity, to think about it meaningfully, or in the way that you do. I meant everything I said, and understanding more about where I'm coming from should shed some light on where my post was coming from.

    Fair enough. I am completely aware of that, but we are dealing with philosophies and opinions here, and to understand them properly, often you have to understand the person who has them. That's hard to do on a message board, assuming you even feel inclined to.

    Sometimes I make an additional effort to be really clear, other times I am just expressing myself in whatever way it comes out at the time.

    I know what you mean actually. It would take a leap of faith to suddenly start believing in things again. It gets so you don't even want to try, because you know you'll only be disappointed, and there's a chance you'll even lose what little life there is left in you. It takes too much emotional effort. I think we're talking about the same thing. I struggle with it all the time. But I have this chip on my shoulder. It's almost like a built in mechanism that comes to life whenever something sucks. Life is personal for me. In some ways it feels like it's out to get me, to hold me down, beat me into submission. But f#@k it. It's not going to. Stangely enough I find most of my strength in a deep empty pit of despair, and I don't climb out, I fly out, stronger than I was before with a determination to show whatever it is that is responsible for ALL this that I'm not just your average little pawn.
    I'm being a little dramatic with my metaphors here I know, but for me they describe the good fight that is my life.

    I define magic as all the beautiful, mysterious and surprising moments that you might experience during your life. A sunset. Looking into the eyes of the woman or man you love. A cute little baby. All the amazing things that are part of this life. And there are plenty of them

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    A person who has thier heart wide open to such things will inevitably find even more.

    Aside from than that neccessary clarification, I agree with what you've said.

    LOL. That's a rather amusing mental image, and not entirely nauseating for someone like me. But I get your point

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    I completely agree what you're saying, and don't have much to add. As for loving everyone, it's not something I always actively do. Friends and family, sure. People I don't know, well, I don't always feel it, but feeling isn't everything. If a situation arises, I like to do what I can. I certainly empathise and often sympathise. As for unconditionally loving everybody, well, I wouldn't make a good Jesus. But I'm not as quick to judge and condemn as most people. I make an effort to understand all points of view. I might even sympathise where many other people wouldn't. And I don't write people off very easily at all, no matter who they are.

    I guess the moral of your story is "be who you are, don't throw your pearls to pigs, and always be willing to learn".

    I know when I'm wasting my time with somebody. But it's probably a point well beyond where most other people might have given up, and it might be with a person most other people wouldn't have even bothered with in the first place. I like to give people a chance, and often more than one. Sometimes I push things. Sometimes it's not a good idea. But every now and then you can surprise the cynics. I tend to be like a young tennis player to dives for all his shots rather than a more experienced player who doesn't bother with the ones he thinks he can't get, although a lot of the time I'm actually both.

    I guess in many ways they are the same thing in my book, although "good" in the sense of what is ultimately right regardless of what you're feeling at the time is not neccessarily synonomous with what I mean when I say magic.

    Ok, I'm sick of the sound of my own words in my head now, but I wanted to reply in a meaningful way.
     
  17. Squid Vicious Banned Banned

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    i'm done. we're different. just some interesting similarities of application i wanted to clear up for myself, is all.

    i'm working on getting that 10% down to 5% at the moment. gonna take a while, too many come too close.
     
  18. >_O Registered Senior Member

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    smiles are contagious....
    we really need to do something about that

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  19. prozak Banned Banned

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    Who am I
    D. R. I.
    Who am I?
    Three simple words
    Who am I?
    A human being
    Who am I?
    This weird thing
    Who am I?
    Not what I seem
     

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