Unitarians

Discussion in 'Religion' started by mathman, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    As I understood it, Unitarians were Christians who rejected the concept of Trinity and to some extent the divinity of Jesus. The Wikipedia article describing Unitarian-Universalist says that Christianity is not required. People of any religion (Jewish, Islam. Buddhism, etc.) can participate. What is going on?
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    From where I'm standing you've nicely described what's going on.
    Can you be more explicit with your question?

    I went it a Unitarian church for several years. And I'm an atheist. (I went for the community. Nobody ever asked me about God.)



    https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1378/unitarianism
    Unitarian Universalism is a theologically liberal, inclusive belief system
    The consolidation of the Unitarian and Universalist denominations in 1961 brought together two distinct traditions to form a creedless movement that acts today as an umbrella organization for religious liberals all over the world. Under its current name, Unitarian Universalism is a theologically liberal and inclusive belief system
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That's what's going on. Unitarians nowadays have nondenominational services.
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    What are the beliefs please?

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  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    One is that Jesus was a great man and a prophet, but not necessarily a part of God. Others:
    Jesus is a pretty good role model
    Science and belief can coexist; there is no conflict between the two
    There is no 'original sin' and people can be good or bad
    No one religion has the absolute truth
    The authors of the Bible were inspired, but human, and so made mistakes
    Predestination, heaven and hell are silly
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    OK, I would not describe as great. One of a number of prophets around at the time. Possible non existent even. Just an amalgamation from those who were around and just one which religion chose to elevate

    Mild harmless belief

    Debatable if you are into debating dubious religious people

    Can coexist ✔️ only if both do not attempt to invade the others territory

    When science shows lighting is an electrostatic discharge not Zeus throwing thunderbolts science is not invading religious territory, merely pointing out religion has no territory as far as Zeus is concerned

    there is no conflict between the two X

    I take it when you say belief you mean religion. In which case my tick and cross stand, since religion is ALL belief

    Belief equals acceptance without evidence and I cannot see science buying that crock
    I would classes that sentence as a given

    Since absolute truth is non existent no-one has

    More that they took advantage of people who believed in fictional stories and concocted stories to tell which they claimed gave them superiority over others

    It was deliberate not a mistake

    Predestination debatable concept

    heaven and hell are silly - another given

    My 10 cent summation

    A group who are peevish about religion

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He did sort of have a big effect on the world.
    Nope. You asked about UNITARIAN beliefs. Not ALL beliefs.
    I am going with Hanlon's Razor on that one. It works 99.9% of the time.
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    More the people who elevated him what 600 years after he supposedly died
    If UNITARIANS believe such you are mistaken
    I'm going with malice

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    .

    Edit some time later. I fell asleep

    I don't think deliberate malicious, more uneducated malicious (doubtful if they were much more educated than the people they were conning)

    So I can go with unintentional malice. However it should (might) have dawned on them later the person had a lot of trust in them
    To continue the fictional story telling then it becomes malicious

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I am pretty sure he died!
    I disagree. People find ways to make the two conflict all the time; they are trying way too hard. There's no basic conflict. The Bible isn't a science book.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    That presumes he existed
    Far from established that he did

    The basic conflict is
    • science requires evidence
    • religious belief does not

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  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Pretty good evidence. From Roman senator and historian Tacitus, who lived from 56 to 120 AD, wrote about the people "called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus." He had no love for Christians and regularly condemned them. Josephus, a historian who lived from 37-100 AD, also referenced Jesus in his writings.

    So if you believe that charity and kindness is a good thing, you can't be a scientist?
     
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  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I think you're actually making the point that science and belief can co-exist.

    Regardless of whether he did, there is an ethical construct built around him that imperfect humans can follow.
    Science has nothing to say about that.

    They don't operate in the same sandbox.

    Science address questions about what - things we can see.
    Faith addresses question about why - things we can't see.

    If you ask faithful scientists, that's often the answer they give.
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Christians yes as a group, JC as an individual - questionable

    Religious people have not a sandbox to operate in

    It is only a sandbox in their imagination. When scientists via science throw out some of their imaginary sand they pretend no big deal. Science cannot figure out WHY the Universe exist and the purpose of us humans on Earth

    The Universe exist and humans exist because both are allowed by physics

    Neither have any purpose

    Religious people step up and prattle on about god's plan and humans role in god's plan. In other words make up stories

    With good reasons scientists don't deal in made up stories

    Ask any religious scientists are they looking for god's plan, or something mundane in the real world

    The scientists religious aspects has god's plan settled by BELIEF by default

    Pesky reality makes scientists work for evidence

    Abortion where many religious people, and yes a few non religious (although they put forward the same arguments, or state they don't like it) are trying to kick the sand out of the reality sandbox

    No-one invited them in but they seem to feel a need to dominate non religious people to get them to believe their made up fantasy

    Frustration over not being able to explain made up fantasy is not reality, my 10 cent explanation for their spoil sport behaviour

    Charity and kindness operate in reality

    A scientist religious beliefs are not a requirement for being charitable and kind in reality

    Time for coffee

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is a straw man.
    We've gone from 'What is Unitarianism' to Michael345's 'Decrees About All Religion' in just a few short posts.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Show me the scientific basis of kindness, why it is objectively good.
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    billvon brought up that UNITARIANS discuss and in my words are

    If billvon had said UNITARIANS believe daffodils taste good with roast lamb I would be posting about that

    scientific basis of kindness - there is none

    objectively good - it isn't - good / bad run through a spectrum of value judgements which are all subjective

    Yourself brought up sandbox

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  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Therefore, by your arguments, there is a conflict between science and kindness.

    In reality, there is not.
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry not following

    Please explain

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  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You said that science requires evidence but belief does not, and therefore evidence-based science and non-evidence-based beliefs conflict.

    You also said that there is no evidence to show compassion and kindness are objectively good - it's just a belief.

    Therefore, by your own argument, they conflict.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    You badly miss quote

    Never mentioned belief as in

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