...who was apointed by Trump... will be handlin the classified documents case.!!!
US District Judge Aileen Cannon...
- Thread starter cluelusshusbund
- Start date
Maybe Trump is unlikely to be found guilty anyway on account of one or more of his blind supporters managing to get onto the jury (think there are only so many objections that can be raised during the selection process)
But the trial will be transparent ,even if it takes place after the election.
By all (most) accounts Trump cannot win the general election so it is just a shitstorm in a teapot.
But the trial will be transparent ,even if it takes place after the election.
By all (most) accounts Trump cannot win the general election so it is just a shitstorm in a teapot.
Yes, I misspoke on that, the making a fool of herself was accurate though.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
"classified documents"
Is almost meaningless
There are myriad levels of classification from confidential to secret to top secret and several more above top secret--eg: "no forn".
To say that president trump had classified documents is obfuscatory on a good day and meaningless on most days.
and
We will never know the level of classification of any of those documents nor their contents.
So any opinion which we may form will be founded in ignorance.
But, don't that slow you down none.
However the president has ultimate declassification authority and may declassify anything at any time.
So Trump may have declassified any and all of those documents at any time.
Which makes this whole thing, most likely, silly political theater.
enjoy the show
Is almost meaningless
There are myriad levels of classification from confidential to secret to top secret and several more above top secret--eg: "no forn".
To say that president trump had classified documents is obfuscatory on a good day and meaningless on most days.
and
We will never know the level of classification of any of those documents nor their contents.
So any opinion which we may form will be founded in ignorance.
But, don't that slow you down none.
However the president has ultimate declassification authority and may declassify anything at any time.
So Trump may have declassified any and all of those documents at any time.
Which makes this whole thing, most likely, silly political theater.
enjoy the show
Im guessin that Trump was tickled pink when he herd Cannon woud be the judge.!!!
Mayb she has had an attitude adjustment after all the earlier heat she took and this time Trump might get the short end of the stick on some of the close-call judgments.!!!
Then Trump will not be so happy... an callin her the worst... most incompetent judge that history has ever seen
Cannon barred DOJ investigators from using the classified documents recovered from last August’s FBI search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate until a special master appointed by her reviewed the files. She claimed Trump faced “reputational harm” of a “decidedly different order of magnitude” than an ordinary person subjected to a similar search.
Her favorable rulings for Trump during the investigation raised eyebrows and prompted calls from Democratic lawmakers for her to recuse herself from overseeing the trial.
Her favorable rulings for Trump during the investigation raised eyebrows and prompted calls from Democratic lawmakers for her to recuse herself from overseeing the trial.
Mayb she has had an attitude adjustment after all the earlier heat she took and this time Trump might get the short end of the stick on some of the close-call judgments.!!!
Then Trump will not be so happy... an callin her the worst... most incompetent judge that history has ever seen
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
That there happen to be many nuanced levels does not make it "almost meaningless"; it just means it's not simple. Lordy, I hope no one expected it to be simple.
Perhaps, to us unwashed masses, it's a bit muddy. But that's the point of an investigation - and a trial - with qualified, informed participants.
Any opinion will of course be equivocal, but there are degrees of ignorance.
We don't need to know the content of the docs, or even the nuances of the classification system, to discuss it to the best of our ability. Those nuances will be part of our discussion.
Good, then there will be a paper trail of it. He can't just do it retroactively, with his telepathic mind.
The above are limitations we all already know, and take into consideration. Stating that we all are merely armchair analysts is to state the obvious.
Janus58
Valued Senior Member
I'll agree that "classified records" is meaningless in this case, as the charges being brought are not dependent on the classification level of the documents, but on the types of information they contained, and what he did when the government asked for those documents(Which were US property and not his), back. ( In fact, if he had just turned them over when first requested to do so, he wouldn't be facing any charges now)
And, no, the President does not have the authority to just "wave his hand" and declassify documents. He has the authority to initiate the process of declassification, and in many cases this process requires the signing off by various departments. But, again, declassification does not alter the contents of the document, and if he could have and did declassify them without letting the affected departments know about it, that would have made things even worse.
Two points here. First this is an excellent reason that he should never have been president (he's a moron as reported by many that have worked with, or you can just listen to him for 5 minutes and come to the same conclusion). Secondly, there is a recording of him claiming he did not declassify the documents in question (more moron evidence).
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
Will this do?
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/09/...idnt-declassify-secret-information/index.html
No actual recording for you to listen to, but includes some of the transcript.
Janus58
Valued Senior Member
In addition, the tapes are listed in the formal indictment. The DOJ would not do such if they did not have them to present in court during the case. In fact, being part of the indictment means they did present them to the grand jury in order to get the indictment.
To imply that, just because they are not yet out there for the general public to listen to, they may not exist is grasping at straws.
It is not meaningless. If the documents in question are stamped "secret" or "classified", or have some other classification information on them, then the law will specify who can see those documents, how they can deal with them, who they can show them to, etc. POTUS must surely be briefed about handling classified documents when s/he takes office.
Moreover, there is clear evidence in this case that Trump was aware that he was not allowed to retain certain documents because they were classified (at whatever level).
No. It's a simple matter of the facts of the case. Documents were retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. Trump had previously been informed that he could not retain those documents, but he did not return them even after being asked to. In fact, it appears that he took active steps to hide some of the documents from investigators, so that he could retain them.
The contents of top secret documents are unlikely to be published, for reasons that ought to be obvious to you. However, the levels of classification are certainly relevant to the court proceedings. Lots of information on those has already appeared in the regular news media, and it will be presented in the legal proceedings.
Only if you confine yourself to a Fox News or One America media bubble.
Trump was not President when he was required to return the documents, so even if your hypothetical power existed when he was President, it clearly did not exist at the relevant time when Trump was refusing to return the documents.
The facts seem to be that he did not do so. Moreover, he later admitted that he had not declassified at least some of the documents. (See the recording referred to previously, for instance.)
You should not believe everything that Trump tells you in his public rallies. Trump continually lied during his time in office, to the extent that independent fact-checking services were set up to just to keep track of all the lies he told, and he continues to tell lies today. The big one, of course, is the lie that the election was stolen from him.
You cavalier attitude to democracy and national security in your country is both interesting to observe and worrying, at the same time. If you help to end American democracy by mindlessly following a would-be-autocrat, at some future time you might just find that you regret your naivete.
Must admit, I'm happy I put sculptor on ignore long ago after reading his bs takes on demented Dumbald and the documents.
Drumpf is the most obvious threat to American democracy I've ever seen.
Even his father knew there was something so wrong with him that he sent his son to boarding school.
Ignore the former president at your own peril.
Drumpf is the most obvious threat to American democracy I've ever seen.
Even his father knew there was something so wrong with him that he sent his son to boarding school.
Ignore the former president at your own peril.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
I'm more worried about the 70 million Americans that looked at him and said "I'll have me summa dat!" They - and their toxic ideas - will be around long after Trump is behind bars.
True. I forgot about them for a short while since I haven't been on Twitter a lot after Elmo decided it was a "we sympathize with the Nazis" operation.
I personally hope that some of the people that drank the Kool aid throw up and return to humanity.
ETA: this was a reply to Dave.
I personally hope that some of the people that drank the Kool aid throw up and return to humanity.
ETA: this was a reply to Dave.
there mindset becomes more understandable when you realize they don't care about being helped just that the people they hate are being hurt
The desperation is ridiculous.
There is no "may have" left to argue.
Even Cannon's court is going forward as if the documents are not declassified.
Also, improper retention and dissemination of national defense material does not explicitly countenance classification; this whole psychic-declassification joke is misdirection.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
as/re:" So Trump may have declassified any and all of those documents at any time"
It's beginning to seem most likely that the damned fool didn't declassify the documents that were in his possession -----------idiot.
Maybe just a tad to arrogant for his own good?
whatever: this should prove entertaining
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