I would be very interested in the theistic viewpoint on this. As a rationalist, I think my position is very simple. I "know" things by sensory input. I observe, I test, I conclude. Pretty straightforward, right? This you might call the empirical approach to knowing. As theists, you appear to subscribe to a different way of knowing. I have the following questions that I would like you to answer (if you would be so kind) with a simple yes or no, then elaborate on if you desire. 1) Do you claim that your way of knowing results in an objective truth? 2) If the answer to 1) was yes, can you show this truth to me? 3) If the answer to 1) was no, then do you expect others to accept what you claim you know as "truth"? 4) Do you feel that knowledge gained via this non-empirical way of knowing is ever useful outside of an individuals experience of it? So, if you were teaching a class of school children, how would you describe this "way of knowing"? Thanks.
Yes. No, but you could show it to yourself. Yes. Clear your mind and become aware of your mind and the present moment exactly as they exist without you imposing your own conceptualizations onto them. You will realize that there is no separate entity called "you," there is just an undivided whole without beginning and without end. When you realize this simple truth you will know you are seeing reality as it truly is for the first time and feel perfect peace. Welcome
What do you think? And can you justify your thoughts against what you might answer to the above questions?
yes (if your method is empiricism or even rationalism, you cannot answer yes to this) not so easy if by your activities of consciousness, you identify with your material mind and senses, that's the furtherest extent you can go the bridging gap between our consciousness that identifies with the mind and senses and our consciousness that identifies with the noumena of our mind and senses (the soul) is the saintly person and scripture, since they both appear to our "material" vision (we can see them and we can also pit our sense of inquiry to them too) unfortunately for the atheist, they usually pit their inquiry in the mood of maliciousness, and thus ruin the whole opportunity BG 4.34: Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth. its not just blind belief - Inquiry MUST be there. And its not just "take take take" (which is part of the disease of material consciousness) - service, or reciprocation, MUST be there empirical knowledge is useful in the sense that it is relative (relative to the senses) rational knowledge is useful in the sense that it is relative (relative to the mind) in other words rationalism and empiricism can help me cross the road, build a house or decide whether i want a glass of water or apple juice, but as far as entering into issues beyond the purview of my senses and mind it can't help me come to any conclusion except for "perhaps it is like this? perhaps it is like that?" here's an excerpt about the subject
