What interactions with theists say about God

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by wynn, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Years of communication.

    Erm! I don't know, I haven't given it much thought.

    Are you a policeman?

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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    You said, in reply to Lori:

    You did not actually ask anyone whether they want that Lori leaves.

    You simply attributed intentions to people.

    Do you think this is fair?

    Do you think that "years of communication" justify you making claims about other people's intentions in any situation, and conversely, obligate others to believe your claims about their intentions?

    I think you should give it thought - a lot of thought.

    If you want to go around making claims about other people's intentions, without asking those people anything, but nonetheless expecting that your claims about their intentions be taken seriously -
    Are you an official representative of God who can unilaterally obligate other people, in matters of God?
    certainly needs to be settled first, in the affirmative.

    Otherwise, you are just another controlling, aggressive busybody abusing his spiritual/religious credentials.
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  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Lori was being human, I responded to that.
    Maybe you should listen from time to time.

    Under the circumstances, yes.

    The question is inappropriate.

    I'll put it on my 'to do' list.
    How's that?

    You're serious aren't you?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Yes. I AM the second coming.
    But I don't do requests.

    That, I AM also.

    Now, are you or are you not a policeman?

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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    In the name of God, anything is permissible, eh?

    And you wonder why some of us end up wondering whether theists are perhaps indeed free to rape, kill and pillage with impunity.
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Actually, I don't.

  9. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Then why do you think why some of us end up wondering whether theists are perhaps indeed free to rape, kill and pillage with impunity?
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Because you're free to think what you want?

  11. Emil Valued Senior Member

    From my own experience (not on SciForum), most religious have nothing do with morals give by their own religion.
    They are religious only declarative, and they don't understand the principles of their own religion.

    But I have met what I call "true believers", who are wonderful people, always ready to listen you, always ready to help you.
    Unfortunately most people (religious or not) take advantage of them and then mock of them.

    My conclusion is that you can be evil, and if you are religious and if not.
    And you can be a good (wise) man, and if you are religious and if not .
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

    bravo. you got it.

    good or bad people has nothing to do with religion nor does sincerity.

    yes, even religious people will mock those who are sincere because religion is not all about sincerity. that's a level of true wisdom and honesty that is not mainstream and religion is of mainstream values. that requires one to be real, genuine and to have a genuine sense of conscience not just be 'religious'. it is an active and natural thing that comes from sincerity where one does not need to constantly go check what a book says or told you to do. that is not true wisdom or even sincerity. what's ironic is jesus was an example of the persecution, dismissal or mockery but so many religious don't even understand it. they just see him as a way for them to get into heaven. basically, they just see him as something to use and ride the forgiveness angle for all it's worth.

    unfortunately, the biggest drawback to a religion that offers forgiveness for anything is that it will attract those who are only really in it for that. they are not attracted out of sincerity but as a way for people to tell themselves and eachother that they are fine, not because they are not smart enough or talented enough etc but because they want their character flaws excused because they don't really care to change them. they sin, god washes away their sin etc. this is one of the major reasons it attracts some of the scummiest and morally irresponsible people which is ironic because religion is supposed to be the epitomy of morality. their deceit is that they believe they are special or have a sense of entitlement because of their love for 'god'. religious people, especially of fundamental religions tend to be the most heirarchal and powermongers in thinking which is ironic. basically, they think they should be on top bossing around everyone else as they believe they are right and the right hand of god with all others the 'lesser' people, the 'sinners', the 'lost' etc. when in reality, it's not that they are trying to gain members as much as their attraction to the religion is very primal and they know that others who are attracted to the religion are the same as them. everyone else deserves to go to hell basically or is worthless is what they really think or believe.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    How come people who are into religion, or spirituality, or who are theists, tend to think that those of us who are not, are not sincere (and are bad) ...
  14. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Not at all.
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

    i already explained it. they are not really enlightened. they think only those who are in the correct 'club' or religion or literal 'theists' are those who are sincere or good. not all of them but most of them. this is because they think in very superficial and conventional terms. theist equals god equals good, nontheist must equal bad etc. ironicly, they are the most conventional minded of all and even less insightful.

    that said, i don't think people who respect spirituality or the concept tend to be this way. i think people who consider themselves spiritual but not religious or traditional theists are more open-minded and leave things more open-ended. they are understanding that it's a process of experience and discovery where they may or may not get all the answers.

    also, traditional theists tend to think that lack of belief in god or not being a part of a religion means that one is immoral or does not respect morality. this again is because of their black/white thinking. they think religion has a monopoly in that department. when it's pointed out that it's not necessarily true, they often come back with the excuse that being moral or good is not what's important but belief in god or salvation is. this really hints to why they are attracted to this religion for two-fold reasons. one is ego and they don't want anyone else to be deemed more moral than they so everyone is equalized by this belief system no matter what they actually do. the second is they are trying to cover or excuse their own shortcomings. but ironicly, these types tend to be best at following the letter of the law without understanding or respecting the spirit of the law, so to speak as well. it's really often intentional self-delusion, therefore deceit.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Signal, explain your question.

  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    I find it hard to believe that you are not aware that you are attributing intentions to other people without asking them anything.
    But perhaps you really are not aware you are doing that, being trapped in an aggressive/controlling communication style.
    Or perhaps it is part or your (theological) position to make claims about other people's privacy without asking them anything.

    Constructing I-Statements


    You came into this thread making a you-statement (in plural: they-statement):

    Lori tends to make you-statements as well:

    When I asked her, Lori replied that she considers herself an authoritative representative of God.
    I asked you the same question.
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Why would I need to ask you and co,
    if Lori's reaction is what you want?

    You're the one that's trapped Signal.
    You can't even commit to anything.
    Show some balls, commit to something, then get back to me.

    What is my ''theological position'', and where is the list of rulings that
    correspond to it's various levels. Oh! and please show the actual various levels and how you've come to access them???

    So what?
    If the cap fits.

    Have you clocked some of the statements you and other 2D psuedo-philoheads make about theists, despite having had things explained to
    you over the years.

    It wouldn't be so bad if you had the gonads to make some conclusion
    about yourself.
    Tell us your position Signal, don't be shy, we won't bite.

    We're waiting!
    Put us out of our misery?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Can you prove her wrong?
    I'll tell you what, tell us about yourself, what you actually believe.
    Commit to something, Singal.
    Stick to something, Signal.
    Signal, I implore you.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Apart from the fact that I've answered this question in more thanb
    one of you sciforums personalities, the question is irrelevant to the present discussion.
    I am sure that when you are ready to commit to being one person on these forums, the reasoning behing this persistantly adament line of questioning will
    become clear. Or maybe it will fade away as you become accustomed to reality. Only time will tell.

  19. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    nothing. they believe in a fairy tale. yet if i believe in a bigfoot im crazy... there is more evidence of bigfoot than god
  20. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    There are a couple of bible quotes that lead them to believe that stuff . Like-mind quotes . You here it in every day type stereotyping too . Here is a common quote in the modern world " tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are ' No this is not necessarily true . but people except it as a kind of fact as they pigeon hole others. Here would be one example " If you got a beer in your hand and you hang out with dunks you must be a dunk and we will treat you like you are a drunk . So here is the million dollar question of the day " Was Jesus a drunk " ??

    O.K. there are many bible quotes that say the exact opposite of this implication . These is the ones that cause the Christian to go out and convert peoples . So on one hand you are ostracized and on the other hand you are brought into the fold . The biggest of all mystery which runs its course threw the old testament and the new that most reject or ignore is forgiveness and mercy . Once a scape goat is made then the grudge continues for ever more . I am sure know people like that . Hating other people is the easy thing to do . The hard work is to forgive . It is understandable as you leave your self open for perps to repeat behavior. Not if you give em the killer eye when you forgive em . Not to many people want to die . They would rather change and adapt . Humans are like that . Hells Bells I do believe that is why we as a species are still here.

    O.K. I stopped giving the evil eye many years ago , so get off the gate keepers butt. I only give love glances now . Kissy Kissy . Love can be tough sometimes . Tough Love eye is still in the mix .
    I had the strangest day yesterday. If you were Me you would have freaked . I did . Life is so so strange
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

    to be honest, i've never known a christian who actually forgives or really lives the way the bible says. i'm sure they exist but the ones i've known are like anyone else and hold grudges as well as believe in revenge, though they seem to be even worse. the way they justify this is through their religion as well because the bible also shows god punishing. but they do expect forgiveness for their wrongs though.

    let's put it this way. it's one thing to nod and tell yourself that you would forgive and another to actually have something happen to make you extremely angry or hurt or ego bruised especially or motivated by jealousy, envy, prejudice, pride etc. the christians i've known, the bible verses have no place or is totally irrevelant when 'real' life occurs. so i don't respect them very much as i think they are full of it as well as more deceitful.

    it's good that you mentioned scapegoat because that's what most do so they can continue to pretend that they are forgiving but in reality, they have their victims while they pretend they are not hateful. why would they be? since they are the ones who are perpetrating. but you really get to see just how deceitful they are when the tables turn on them, they can get very vicious. it's really weird how they expect people to forgive them and others to forgive others but when something happens to them, it's somehow different and they get pissed, indignant and demand "justice" etc. while all the while they tell others to stop being that way and just forgive. these types of christians make me sick. it's just disgusting how unfair, hypocritical and biased they are.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  22. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    That is me handle Brother . Big Foot. Me code name . My family gave it to me .
    Hunting handle . I kind of like the name . I didn't at first but it grew on me as the years went by . Now it is the strangest thing when I found out Haiti had another name by the original tribes . Yeah " Foot " it interpreted to foot .
    Kind of freaked me with the way I feel about the holy shoe in the movie " Life of Brian "
    Won't be long and the wood shipments will be going there . Looks like we got wood . Meeting in about 30 minutes with a sawyer that thinks he can help .

    Rock on
  23. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

    RedRabbit -

    How did it go with your father. Very interested in hearing about the debate.

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