What is the difference between a vaccine using RNA vs DNA?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Dennis Tate, May 9, 2021.

  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That's very interesting. I read recently one of the inventors of the BioNTech vaccine saying he and his wife developed it having in mind the likelihood of the emergence of variants and that he was confident it would work against most of them.
     
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  3. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    Exactly. This has been the expectation of the biomedical community all along. All the intense hand-ringing in the media about whether the vaccines will work against the emerging variants hasn’t (on average) come from scientific community.

    Quoting from one of the Pfizer clinical trial reports:
    A SARS-CoV-2 variant is very unlikely to carry alterations to all the immunogenic epitopes in the S protein. Thus, the expectation of the biomedical community is that the COVID vaccines may have slightly reduced efficacy against some variants, but is expected to retain beneficial efficacy against all variants.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. There's a fair amount of intelligent guesswork to intuit which is the "key" protein to target. If it's a protein that is integral to the virus, and if removed the virus ceases to be virulent, then that's a good target, because the virus can't mutate to change it without losing its virulence. That's how the spike protein was targeted - and it looks like they guessed pretty well.
     
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  7. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Probably it may slso take care of all variants.
    "protease TMPRSS2 can serve as a target for pharmacological agents to prevent the penetration of the SARS-CoV-2 into the cell "
     
  8. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Tesisting a thief to knock snd enter your door and harmvus should be a better and easy option than you let him enter your home and then do something to deal with and remove hom from home. Not do? I feel, few snti virals and vaccines can do the former. Any type of theif.
     
  9. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Whether immune response is altred due to long term antibody development post infection or post vaccination?
    Probably we need to look immunization in two types. 1. Immunological memory mediated 2. Long term antibody mediated.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Antibodies are part of long term immunologic memory.
     
  11. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Yes but , should these not be secreted on need on stimulation of immunoligical memory? There should be a thought on their long term persistence in body, if express consistsnt immune or inflammatory response?
    "
    IMMUNIZATION

    Vaccination (immunization) is a way to trigger the immune response. Small doses of an antigen, such as dead or weakened live viruses, are given to activate immune system "memory" (activated B cells and sensitized T cells). Memory allows your body to react quickly and efficiently to future exposures "
    This is mentioned on link I gave in my last post. It aporeas to be real goal of achieving immunization i.e. achieving just immunological memory as above.
     
  12. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    In short, antibody related immune response and immunization appears to be curruent, traces, latency and short term anticipation of reinfection which may last within one year(anticipating ramaiñent, latency, epidemic) but with burden on system wheras it is long term by adapting immunological memory which may even persist for several decades(anticipating any same infection on future) snd without burden on our system. They are also classified under different immune systems. In some sense, difference of kinetic and potential energy.
     
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  13. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    "While antibodies induced by natural COVID-19 infection may start to decline in few months, as a study by researchers at Imperial College found on Tuesday, the many potential COVID-19 vaccines in development are designed to induce more durable immunity by invoking strong so-called immune memory"
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN27E2NQ
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ms at the,which induce rapid recall responses.
    In view of it, we should also look a vaccine by its immunolocal memory providing property not just antibody providing orooerty.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2021
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  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Something that I do not like about any of the vaccines is that since the survival rate for COVID 19 is around ninety nine percent.............. why do I even need any of the vaccines at all?????
     
  15. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    You can’t be serious.

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    You think 1% mortality is trivial? Do you realize that’s 1 in 100? Try going to India at the moment and see what effect a 1% mortality rate is having on their society. I'm assuming you're in the USA. Are you aware SARS-CoV-2 has killed more Americans than WWII?

    A respiratory virus with a 1% mortality rate makes it one of history’s greatest microbial killers. There are few examples of a virus with a higher mortality rate. The SARS-CoV-2 death toll worldwide is thought to be ~3.5 million. That’s only confirmed cases; the true total is certainly much higher (meaning that the true mortality rate might be closer to 2%). And that’s so far; this pandemic is not over.

    https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938

    3.5 million dead makes SARS-CoV-2 one of the worst pandemics in all of recorded human history. This Wikipedia page puts it at #9. If you count only the last century it’s #3.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

    It’s not just the 1% that’s devastating; it’s that mortality rate combined with extreme infectiousness, aerosol transmission and long-term (perhaps permanent) morbidity in some survivors (look up “long COVID syndrome”). The high infection rate and aerosol transmission means that young people who will likely suffer only mild COVID-19 are in danger of infecting older people who have maybe a 1 in 30 chance of DYING from COVID-19. Thus, it is everyone’s duty to humanity to be vaccinated. Even if you’re a sociopath who doesn’t care about COVID deaths, vaccination for everyone is an economic imperative. We need to get borders and businesses open.

    A highly infectious respiratory virus capable of aerosol transmission with a 1% mortality rate and capable of producing serious long-term morbidities in survivors is something that every single person in the world should be petrified of. You have to go back to plague (a bacterium), smallpox and Spanish Flu to find anything more scary. Thankfully, most people are scared enough to get vaccinated. The remainder make stupid comments on the internet.
     
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  16. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Point to be noted. Esp when even Vaccine is not claimed to be 100% effective.
     
  17. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Btw, how much vaccination will reduce this mortality rate?
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A few reasons:

    If you had 100 friends, wouldn't it be nice if none of them died?
    Only 1 in 100 dies - but 3 or 4 in 100 end up with "long term COVID" and other nasty outcomes (strokes, permanent loss of lung capacity etc.)
    If you get vaccinated, you not only protect yourself, but the vulnerable people who can't get vaccinated. Think about a 10 year old girl with cystic fibrosis. She can't get the vaccine - but you can, and by doing so, reduce the chance that she will get it.
     
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  19. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Yes vaccination can be good as apprant in other infections. But should we not understand very well, what a specific vaccine can give us esp when emergency approval is prefered. About short term and long term effects and side effects esp in its resistsnce caoablity of infection snd its evolutionary impacts. Many medications may be meant for cuurrent purpose but harmful in kong term. So let us try to understand these vaccines for their real need, short term outcones and long term out comes. I think, it can be done under following considerations;
    1. Justification to vaccines need.
    2. Which type of vaccine is better in sense of effects and side effects?
    3. Which vaccine orovide more natural immunity and which more unnatursl...so may out burden on future?
    4. Whether whoke virus based vaccine provide better, multiple, natural but distributed immunty wheress part of it, single, unnatural, specific but more robust ímmunity?
    5. Hiw vaccine provide immune protection based on antibodidy mediated or/ and cellular mediated?
    6. What can be long term impacts in view of getting varíants, ADE, abtibody dependent enhancement or other burdens on body?
    7. Others?
     
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  20. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    My wife and I had both been scheduled to take the vaccine on May 26, (yesterday) but we kept on researching and I decided to cancel last week.

    After giving my wife the following lecture to watch she decided to cancel her appointment as well.


    https://www.brighteon.com/8bc097e4-f290-4f4a-85fa-99ae070c4fd2

    Dr. Simone Gold - THE TRUTH ABOUT COVID-19 VACCINES
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It is sad that you choose to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I think you miss the point of an emergency authorization. The emergency was that millions of people were dying worldwide from COVID-19; the vaccine has halted that (in areas that it is in use.) We did enough testing to know it wasn't significantly dangerous and that it worked well against COVID-19. So far it's saved around a million lives and will save far more once everyone is vaccinated. That's why we were willing to take the risk.
     
  23. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know about you, but I would hate to find out the hard way that someone close to me was among the 1%. If I can help prevent that by getting a vaccine, then why wouldn't I?
     
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