What would you do if..

Why? How do you even know a ghost is pinchable?

I don't, that's why I would have to try to pinch it, to see what happens. When someone tells you a story that's hard to believe, do you just believe it, or do you try to narrow down the cause using any means available?

Here's some accounts of Abraham Lincoln's ghost being seen in the White House by reputable people:

"Several unnamed eyewitnesses have claimed to have seen the shade of Abraham Lincoln actually lying down on the bed in the Lincoln Bedroom (which was used as a meeting room at the time of his administration), and while others have seen Lincoln sit on the edge of the bed and put his boots on.[9] The most famous eyewitness to the latter was Mary Eben, Eleanor Roosevelt's secretary, who saw Lincoln pulling on his boots (after which she ran screaming from the room).[8][14]

Others have actually seen an apparition of the former president. The first person reported to have actually seen Lincoln's spirit was First Lady Grace Coolidge, who said she saw the ghost of Lincoln standing at a window in the Yellow Oval Room staring out at the Potomac.[9]

Theodore Roosevelt[15] and Maureen Reagan and her husband[16] have all claimed to have seen a spectral Lincoln in the White House. A number of staff members of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration claimed to have seen Lincoln's spirit,[11] and on one occasion Roosevelt's personal valet ran screaming from the White House claiming he had seen Lincoln's ghost.[10]

Perhaps the most famous incident was in 1942 when Wilhelmina of the Netherlands heard footsteps outside her White House bedroom and answered a knock on the door, only to see Lincoln in frock coat and top hat standing in front of her (she promptly fainted).[17]

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill loved to retire late, take a long, hot bath while drinking a Scotch, and smoke a cigar and relax. On this occasion, he climbed out of the bath and naked, but for his cigar, walked into the adjoining bedroom. He was startled to see Lincoln standing by the fireplace in the room, leaning on the mantle. Churchill, always quick on the uptake, blinked and said "Good evening, Mr. President. You seem to have me at a disadvantage." Lincoln smiled softly and disappeared.[18

All seeing and no pinching... Go figure.
 
I don't, that's why I would have to try to pinch it, to see what happens. When someone tells you a story that's hard to believe, do you just believe it, or do you try to narrow down the cause using any means available?

LOL! I certainly don't ask them if they pinched the ghost to make sure it was real.


All seeing and no pinching... Go figure.

Once again, how do you know a ghost is pinchable? Maybe they're not. So that test would be totally unhelpful.
 
LOL! I certainly don't ask them if they pinched the ghost to makes sure it was real.

See? You need to push them harder on what actually happened. If seeing is all they have, well, there's invisible green monsters in my backyard too! So I guess everyone has their own little fantasies.


Once again, how do you know a ghost is pinchable? Maybe they're not. So that test would be totally unhelpful.

Once again, the only way to know if your dead Aunt on the sofa is pinchable is to pinch her and find out! Duh? :) ;)
 
You call your neighbor over and he sees and talks to your aunt as well, ruling out brain malfunctioning. Then she disappears in front of you. Supernatural or not? If it walks like a duck...

It would still be a natural phenomenon since it takes place in the natural world. But I would be very tempted to think I just saw a ghost or whatever and I would then be forced to admit that it exist as a natural phenomenon.
 
I didn't see anything that would cause a polymodal hallucination. That's hearing AND seeing a hallucination at the same time.

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Hallucinations can occur in any sensory modality — visual, auditory, olfactory, gustatory, tactile, proprioceptive, equilibrioceptive, nociceptive, thermoceptive and chronoceptive.

Peduncular hallucinosis
Main article: Peduncular hallucinosis

Peduncular means pertaining to the peduncle, which is a neural tract running to and from the pons on the brain stem. These hallucinations usually occur in the evenings, but not during drowsiness, as in the case of hypnagogic hallucination. The subject is usually fully conscious and then can interact with the hallucinatory characters for extended periods of time.
=======================
 
===================
Hallucinations can occur in any sensory modality — visual, auditory, olfactory, gustatory, tactile, proprioceptive, equilibrioceptive, nociceptive, thermoceptive and chronoceptive.

Peduncular hallucinosis
Main article: Peduncular hallucinosis

Peduncular means pertaining to the peduncle, which is a neural tract running to and from the pons on the brain stem. These hallucinations usually occur in the evenings, but not during drowsiness, as in the case of hypnagogic hallucination. The subject is usually fully conscious and then can interact with the hallucinatory characters for extended periods of time.
=======================

"The false images can occur in any part of the visual field, and are rarely polymodal"
 
It would still be a natural phenomenon since it takes place in the natural world. But I would be very tempted to think I just saw a ghost or whatever and I would then be forced to admit that it exist as a natural phenomenon.

Ghosts may very well BE a natural phenomenon. Residual hauntings certainly suggest some environmentally-caused memory effect of past persons/events. But the survival of spirits of the dead ("ghosts" in the conventional sense) suggest more than natural circumstances. Unless we want to include other dimensions as part of the overall realm of nature.
 
Yes. I base this on actual firsthand sightings of ghosts leaving indention marks on chairs and beds.

So those ghosts have mass, they aren't merely a translucent spirit of sorts, they are massive objects that are part of the physical world. Are you suggesting that physical objects need not follow the physical laws we have in place? I'm not sure how to make objects disappear in the real world, unless you mean it's magic?
 
I didn't see anything that would cause a polymodal hallucination. That's hearing AND seeing a hallucination at the same time.

Seizure disorders--particularly temporal lobe epilepsy. I've experienced countless polymodal--visual, auditory, olfactory, and/or tactile--hallucinations in my lifetime, some of which were quite, erm, extraordinary. Often these are compounded by synaesthesia, which I experience to greatly varying degrees both ictal and inter-ictal. To my knowledge, such hallucinations are relatively uncommon outside of epilepsy or other traumatic brain injuries, i.e., schizophrenics typically experience auditory hallucinations exclusively, and if there is a visual component, it's apt to be more of a visual distortion nature as opposed to seeing something that simply isn't there.
 
So those ghosts have mass, they aren't merely a translucent spirit of sorts, they are massive objects that are part of the physical world. Are you suggesting that physical objects need not follow the physical laws we have in place? I'm not sure how to make objects disappear in the real world, unless you mean it's magic?

Maybe they're like light, having only a rest mass. Whatever the case, witnesses report being pushed, touched, and "electrically" scratched or stung by ghosts on investigations. Even quite heavy objects can be moved, rocks thrown, faucets turned on, and doors slammed. Loud rappings on walls occur as well as heavy footsteps on the floor. My guess is they can manipulate mass at will, much as they can other properties like electricity, air movements, sound, scent, etc.
 
Seizure disorders--particularly temporal lobe epilepsy. I've experienced countless polymodal--visual, auditory, olfactory, and/or tactile--hallucinations in my lifetime, some of which were quite, erm, extraordinary. Often these are compounded by synaesthesia, which I experience to greatly varying degrees both ictal and inter-ictal. To my knowledge, such hallucinations are relatively uncommon outside of epilepsy or other traumatic brain injuries, i.e., schizophrenics typically experience auditory hallucinations exclusively, and if there is a visual component, it's apt to be more of a visual distortion nature as opposed to seeing something that simply isn't there.

When you are having a seizure-induced hallucination, is it obvious that is what is happening? Or does the hallucination appear totally real to you?
 
Maybe they're like light, having only a rest mass.


You mean like a light image of your dead Aunt that sits on the sofa and leaves an indentation in the cushion because she has mass, and talks to you for 30 minutes kind of "light like"?

Do you think they have a speed limit of c, or do you think they actually travel faster than light? Why would ghosts have to follow Einstein's speed limit anyway, that would be dumb. Everyone knows ghosts don't care about no speed limit. :rolleyes:
 
"The false images can occur in any part of the visual field, and are rarely polymodal"

Agreed. Which means that sometimes they ARE polymodal.

So we have two possibilities here. One is that ghosts are real. The other is that you are experiencing a known medical phenomenon.
 
You mean like a light image of your dead Aunt that sits on the sofa and leaves an indentation in the cushion because she has mass, and talks to you for 30 minutes kind of "light like"?

Do you think they have a speed limit of c, or do you think they actually travel faster than light? Why would ghosts have to follow Einstein's speed limit anyway, that would be dumb. Everyone knows ghosts don't care about no speed limit. :rolleyes:

Who knows. Why don't you study up on the phenomenon and answer your own questions. Oh that's right. You don't actually accept any of this as real do you? It's all just hallucinations in people's heads.
 
Agreed. Which means that sometimes they ARE polymodal.

So we have two possibilities here. One is that ghosts are real. The other is that you are experiencing a known medical phenomenon.

Did you miss the added stipulation of your neighbor coming over and seeing her as well? Post #18..
 
Why don't you study up on the phenomenon and answer your own questions. Oh that's right. You don't actually accept any of this as real do you? It's all just hallucinations in people's heads.

I will accept it is real when I get to experience something first hand. But as of yet, nothing. Fifty years on this rotating hunk of planet and not a ghost experience one under my belt. None. Still waiting though (patiently I might add).

Who knows. .

Not me.
 
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