Why do theists reject evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No Mr. exchemist, it's better than talking to you! You can put that in your "supposition".

    You know of course that in this particular sub-forum you are on river's turf.

    And you are "Just

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    " being DISRUPTIVE and OFF TOPIC and most certainly not "constructive".....

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  3. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    For the record I happen to be a Theist who believes that YHWH evolved.....
    and / or learned over infinite time in the past......
    and then planned and choreographed an essentially infinite number of Big Bang type events as the Multiverse that we are in was being developed.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Atheists here

    I thought theist held the view god was absolutely perfect from the get go????

    So what's with the YHWH evolved.....
    and / or learned over infinite time???

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  7. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    That is what most Theists believe.....
    it is one of their bad habits......
    They CRUCIFY the Creator with their flawed and legalistic lack of understanding of their Scriptures that they hold dear!


    By 1988 I was beginning to realize that there was something wrong with my understanding of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.......
    so I prayed and asked for Wisdom with chutzpah......
    and by 1990 I began to go through a process where my total lack of understanding of scriptures was shown to me through reading hundreds of near death experience accounts.

    NDE accounts that contain a valid Life Review with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus are one of the primary ways in which this promise is being kept......

    John 16:25


    These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason.html#a04h

    Time is an INVENTION that is comparable to a bicycle, a SUV, a 737 or a canoe........
    Time is used to take souls, spirits and bodies from point A to point B to point C and on and on and on......
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Where’s Alex these days?
    Is he alright?
     
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  9. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    Actually.... I personally do think that you are correct and yes.... the Bible does really support many aspects of evolutionary thought!
     
  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and that is why Science evolved. It is the translation of the mathematical cosmic constants which guide all change in the universe.
     
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  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Not all theists reject evolution. I believe Pope Francis came out a few years back telling Catholics that evolution could be accepted, which would mean that Genesis is an allegory to the RCC. But there are many theists who believe in evolution and treat Genesis as literal. And then there’s also something known as “theistic evolution,” that sort of supports evolution to a certain starting point, while preserving Genesis as literal.

    “ Not all theists” applies here, I guess.
     
  13. Luchito Registered Senior Member

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    389
    You might ignore how the theory of evolution was born. It wasn't from Greeks thinking humans were a transformation from sea animals, or from other religions or philosophies but from Kant, the German dude.

    Kant was the first to connect chimpanzees and Orangutans as the primates which suffered changes to become humans.

    At the same time, Kant wrote and entire book describing the superiority of the white race and mentioning the black race as filled with stupid and good for nothing people.

    Evolution in those times had the exclusive meaning of a change from inferior to superior, from worst to better and from simpler to more complex. Today, in order to cover up such an error in the theory, the "technical term evolution" has acquired a different meaning. Lol.

    The Europeans, who were a solid racist society, found the opportunity to use both ideas from Kant, that humans were descendants of apes and that the black race where humans who never evolved. They pointed the black race as the image of the passing from primate to human, while other humans evolved and became superior as the white race was considered.

    So, by deliberated ignorance, because you never had the initiative of finding the origin of this racist theory of evolution, you are believing in a fallacy, because such theory is not science at all, it was born thru philosophical means and not by observation in nature.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You might as well say "In order to cover up the errors in Newton's theory of gravity, the technical term "gravity" has a acquired a different meaning (as per Einstein)".

    Here's a primer in Science 101:
    Science gets stuff wrong at first. At its very core, it is a process of incremental improvement, as earlier models are replaced with more predictive models. Thus endeth the lesson.


    To suppose that early models of science are "covered up" by improved theories is to holler from the hilltops that you are anti-science.

    All explanations we had to describe our world were at one time, wrong. We have improved them until we've got good working models. We observe, and the theory explains our observations.

    We know how evolution works. We can prove it by going to any pet store of aquarium shop.
    Breeding critters pass on traits via genes in the germ cells. These copies are not always perfect. This results in offspring that physically diverge from their ancestors over time. We can manipulate these genes and know what results we will get.

    What you may be disagreeing with is - not evolution (which is demonstrable fact) - but evolution by natural selection.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,573
    Nope. The first (somewhat incorrect) theory of evolution came from Jean-Baptiste Lamarck in 1802. Kant proposed a theory of stellar (not human) evolution; how the stars collapsed into their present form, for example. In fact he explicitly stated "How life unfolds we do not know; we only know that it does."

    I suspect you just googled "evolution" and got some hits on Kant, so you went with that without understanding what he was saying.
    Sounds like you have some learnin to do!
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Kant - no

    Which is incorrect but let's see what else you got

    Words do change and may accumulate new meanings

    Errors in theories don't get covered up - you b appear to have no problem finding

    And why do we need to ponder the history of the word going back to a definition no longer in use as regarding the evolution of life?

    I don't see any lol humour in the situation, although I have seen such reactions in many post as a indication the person posting seems to laughing at the dumb person not seeing the obvious error the smart poster picked up. Except the picked up (error) does not exist

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  17. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Actually... I think that this is accurate.....
    I am of the belief that our Creator is first and foremost a scientist and we humans are being taught some actually extremely simple lessons. Selfishness leads to destruction....... love for others produces very different long term results in our own lives and for everybody around us. We are now about to be shown how to take these simple principles to the whole world.... and not merely to our immediate homes and neighbourhoods.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    6,757
    Why couldn't those simple principles have evolved?
     
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  19. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    Actually.... I agree that they evolved....
    but I believe that these principles evolved in higher energetic invisible dimensions over infinite time in the past.

    I believe that more than ninety percent of evolution took place in the higher energetic dimensions explained by String Theory.

    I believe that the complexity plus relatively low energy of this four dimensional space time continuum is the ultimate place to be taught the really important lessons.
     
  20. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    Here is how I explained this in response to a reply related to the ancient "gods" of the Greek myths......
    and a Satan or fallen former Covering Cherub.

    In a sentence I consider "God" the Creator to be a Scientist / Inventor who just happens to be composed of
    fundamental or nearly fundamental energy explained by String Theory.

    ..... "
    Personally..... the existence of extremely powerful life forms would fit with my idea of
    God evolving or learning over infinite time in the past. Some or even many of the
    ancient traditions about "gods" could have a basis in a more Theistic Evolutionary Theory.


    My guess is that Intelligence first came into existence in fundamental energy.....
    assuming M-Theory I would guess that the energy of the eleventh space time dimension would begin to
    think and plan and experiment first........
    then later on fundamental energy would be formed into a more complex tenth dimensional continuum......

    then later into a ninth dimensional continuum.....

    later on an eighth dimension teeming with many life forms.....

    later on a seventh dimension also teeming with life that on one level are somewhat "experimental"......

    later on a sixth dimension teeming with life forms much less complicated than we humans are but with capabilities far beyond ours.....

    later on a fifth dimensional space time was invented.... (I suspect as something of a prison environment for spirits who are very selfish and
    predatory)..... (actually a lot of really angry and hateful beings may well exist in the energy of the sixth dimension as well)........ or it may be that
    fifth and sixth dimensional space - time later on became more and more of a prison environment.......
    but perhaps at first those levels of energy / life may have been very different indeed.

    I suspect that to a degree... former Covering Cherub Halel who fell and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because it was in
    Eden that he was in charge of...... I assume that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is somewhat like a program that increases
    understanding exponentially but..... also leads to a terrible temptation.

    I believe that the anger that former Covering Cherub Halel felt as he was thrown down......
    would astonish us..... assuming that he was formed out of perhaps eighth or ninth dimensional energy......
    the emotions that he would face would be far greater than the levels of jealousy or anger that we humans go through
    so often.

    To some degree... I do suspect that
    Satan is acting in the mind set of the Milgram Experiment and is testing all of us
    but perhaps..... if he within himself most admires the people who learn to love others.....
    as opposed to becoming predatory and selfish......
    This would compare to Stanley Milgram Ph. D. of course being more impressed with the
    "Teacher Subjects" who DO NOT zap the "Learner Subject" with dangerously high levels of electrical pulse as they would deliberately
    enact giving a wrong answer.......?!


    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/can-satan-repent.164107/page-3#post-3670296
     
  21. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    I do think that that is true.....
    and one near death experiencer was shown that much of science comes by "inspiration."


     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    So Christianity doesn't provide enough voodoo for you; you have to spackle on another layer of voodoo. XD
     
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  23. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    Yes..... I believe that Theology is actually the study of Psychology except that it is a variation of Psychology that deals with Intelligences and intelligences who
    exist in higher invisible dimensions of space and time as explained in String Theory.
     

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